Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:15 pm

Boeing - what a mess !

Now a 787 had to make an emergency landing.

On top of the 737 MAX fiasco within 24 hours, 2 different Boeing 787 had to make emergency landing due to smoke from the cockpit. With thousands of miles of ocean below this plane was lucky to be able to land in New Caledonia.

And FAA is rushing to declare 737 MAX is safe to fly again, even before the 2 crash investigations conclude.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... nding.html

Meanwhile China booked new planes from Airbus. Some of these planes will be manufactured in Airbus' chinese plant in Tianjin.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... ks-for-you
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:40 pm

Boeing 737max software fix ready ! But will anyone trust it ?

In a less optimistic analysis, Ronald Epstein, an aviation industry financial analyst with Bank of America, told investors it could take Boeing three to six months to fix the troubled aircraft.
In a brief statement Thursday, Boeing said it has paused delivery of MAX airplanes, but will continue to roll out the aircraft at the current rate of around 52 jets a month.

“We continue to build 737 MAX airplanes, while assessing how the situation, including potential capacity constraints, will impact our production system,” Boeing said.

The FAA’s emergency grounding order on Wednesday allows airlines or Boeing to fly the aircraft without passengers aboard, to move them for storage, repairs or maintenance.

That means Boeing will be able to fly completed MAXs that roll out in Renton on ferry flights to Boeing Field or even to Moses Lake in Eastern Washington for storage as jets stack up with no deliveries possible. That should allow Boeing to maintain production in the near term.

In an Op-Ed piece in The New York Times, former National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) chair Jim Hall wrote, “the F.A.A. used to lead the world in air safety; today it is bringing up the rear.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-process/

Who is flying the 737 ?
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report

What does this mean for Boeing?
The 737 is the company’s largest seller and accounts for almost one-third of operating profit. There’ll be claims from airlines; Norwegian Air said it will seek compensation for the grounding of about 1 percent of its seats. And it may impact sales; Lion Air and several other carriers have suspended deliveries or put orders on hold. There’s also the prospect of substantial payouts to the families of passengers if Boeing is found responsible for the crashes. In the week after the second crash, Boeing lost more than $22 billion, or 12 percent, of its market value. Boeing issued a statement after the U.S. regulator grounded the aircraft saying it still has “full confidence” in the plane. According to an analysis of 47 commercial aircraft by Quartz, no model has been implicated in as many fatalities as quickly as the Max 8 since 1966. Boeing has suspended customer deliveries, but continues to produce them at a rate of 52 a month. Meanwhile, investigators in Addis Ababa are studying the Ethiopian Air black box, aided by experts from around the world, while Indonesian authorities say their final crash report may be ready in June.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by Freightdog » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:18 pm

kaputt wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:18 pm
My personal concern is that i don't trust Boeing anymore. I am not on a suicide mission because some execs are cutting costs at any price.

Except for the de Haviland Comet in the early 1950's -- an airplane plagued by in-flight break-ups related to structural design flaws -- never before has a brand-new model of passenger jet been involved in such a catastrophe.

Although the Boeing 737 Max will be re-engineered and thoroughly scrutinized so it can fly again safely, the plane will be forever blemished by its history.


I flew everything from the Boeing 707 all the way to the 787 Dreamliner (i have mixed feelings and experiences about the latter one). Never had i any doubts in the quality that Boeing Engineers did the best job they could. Now that has apparently changed simply because there wasn't enough time for the Company Executives to develop a brand new Plane.

If i were a pilot i would have no trust in Boeing anymore. My life would hang on a thin thread everytime i go to work.
I would demand concrete proof that whatever caused the two accidents -- which are still under investigation -- has been fixed. What kind of proof? First, a clear explanation of the MCAS system and how any fault could be remedied or prevented. Second, documentation via an actual test flight or an appropriately equipped simulator that provides a clear checklist for use by pilots in an emergency with absolute certainty of a safe conclusion.
And if there are additional -- or altogether different -- factors that contributed to a probable cause of the crashes, then they should be addressed as well.

Can pilots regain their trust in Boeing, and more specifically the 737 Max? Someday, maybe. But for now, they will not climb into the cockpit until they absolutely feel that their airplane is safe for its most valued customer, their passengers. And that goes for any airliner every day of the year.

For all those unfamiliar with the subject here is a bit of a safety record of the 737 in it's entire history. It certainly does not look good !
http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/b737.htm
From the first 20 incidents/accidents on that list, you are attempting to use 5 hijackings and 10 events of pilot errors as proof of B737 failings. Once again proving that statistics can just as easily be misused to prove false arguments as much as they can be used to identify trends. You can hardly blame Boeing if there just happen to
The very nature of the B737s popularity mean that it will statistically have a greater quantity of accidents. If you, Kaputt, were to look at the records in a more honest manner, you would also see that for many years, Indonesia had a very high accident rate with an aircraft type that was popular worldwide. The B737. One knee jerk reaction to the first of the Max8 crashes was to attribute it to LionAir’s appalling safety culture. There’s not long previously managed to write off a couple of new 800s.
By using this false info, people like you are simply muddying the waters, generating false impressions, and thus masking the actual issues.

Your argument continues to demonstrate the flaws with such statements like
kaputt wrote:I flew everything from the Boeing 707 all the way to the 787 Dreamliner


Which gives the impression that you are/were a pilot at some point, while later you say ‘if I were...’

From several of your statements thus far, you clearly are a barely informed, but highly opinionated laymen. Perhaps, If you were to stop regurgitating other people’s opinions (Ill-informed or otherwise) as your own, and take time to do some actually reading on the subject you might have a more honest grasp of the situation.

Armchair investigator is what you are. But don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:19 pm

Boeing 737max software fix ready ! But will anyone trust it ?

In a less optimistic analysis, Ronald Epstein, an aviation industry financial analyst with Bank of America, told investors it could take Boeing three to six months to fix the troubled aircraft.
In a brief statement Thursday, Boeing said it has paused delivery of MAX airplanes, but will continue to roll out the aircraft at the current rate of around 52 jets a month.

“We continue to build 737 MAX airplanes, while assessing how the situation, including potential capacity constraints, will impact our production system,” Boeing said.

The FAA’s emergency grounding order on Wednesday allows airlines or Boeing to fly the aircraft without passengers aboard, to move them for storage, repairs or maintenance.

That means Boeing will be able to fly completed MAXs that roll out in Renton on ferry flights to Boeing Field or even to Moses Lake in Eastern Washington for storage as jets stack up with no deliveries possible. That should allow Boeing to maintain production in the near term.

In an Op-Ed piece in The New York Times, former National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) chair Jim Hall wrote, “the F.A.A. used to lead the world in air safety; today it is bringing up the rear.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-process/

Who is flying the 737 ?
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report

What does this mean for Boeing?
The 737 is the company’s largest seller and accounts for almost one-third of operating profit. There’ll be claims from airlines; Norwegian Air said it will seek compensation for the grounding of about 1 percent of its seats. And it may impact sales; Lion Air and several other carriers have suspended deliveries or put orders on hold. There’s also the prospect of substantial payouts to the families of passengers if Boeing is found responsible for the crashes. In the week after the second crash, Boeing lost more than $22 billion, or 12 percent, of its market value. Boeing issued a statement after the U.S. regulator grounded the aircraft saying it still has “full confidence” in the plane. According to an analysis of 47 commercial aircraft by Quartz, no model has been implicated in as many fatalities as quickly as the Max 8 since 1966. Boeing has suspended customer deliveries, but continues to produce them at a rate of 52 a month. Meanwhile, investigators in Addis Ababa are studying the Ethiopian Air black box, aided by experts from around the world, while Indonesian authorities say their final crash report may be ready in June.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by newkidontheblock » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:54 am

I’m waiting for Boeing’s stock to drop more so I can buy more Boeing. Company is still listed very bullish on recommendations for increased growth.

Kindly fan the rumor flames some more Kaputt!

I want the stock to be preferably below 300 so I can buy lots of shares before the uptick!
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:36 am

Murphy's Law: If you think it can't get any worse.....it will !

Southwest Airline makes Emergency Landing...., the poor pilots that had to fly these trash cans to their parking destination in the California Desert. Luckily they did not crash land !

This case proofs that Boeing does not only have a Software Patch Problem but a general Quality Control Problem. This is a brand new Plane for christs sake !!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKCN1R72NI
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by Freightdog » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:17 pm

Kaputt
From your postings, it would be easy to conclude that you have a non-technical background, as there is barely any understanding of the subject on which you are posting so much about. I seriously hope that you are better at your own day job.

I’d suggest again; you need to do a lot more research before posting so much tripe on a subject that you have not even achieved a basic understanding of.

Boeing have got some things wrong with the Max. Without a doubt.
But most of what you are writing is garbage, hampered by a seriously blinkered attitude, with just a few snippets of truth gleaned from articles that you clearly don’t understand very well, and the rest is copy and paste plagiarism, often out of context.

You’re now bordering on being a troll in a thread that you started yourself.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by Freightdog » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:21 pm

newkidontheblock wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:54 am
I’m waiting for Boeing’s stock to drop more so I can buy more Boeing. Company is still listed very bullish on recommendations for increased growth.

I want the stock to be preferably below 300 so I can buy lots of shares before the uptick!
I’m thinking much the same.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:49 pm

Lack of redundancies on Boeing 737 MAX system baffles some involved in developing the jet

The design
Boeing had been exploring the construction of an all-new airplane earlier this decade. But after American Airlines began discussing orders for a new plane from Airbus in 2011, Boeing abruptly changed course, settling on the faster alternative of modifying its popular 737 into a new MAX model.

Rick Ludtke, a former Boeing engineer who worked on designing the interfaces on the MAX’s flight deck, said managers mandated that any differences from the previous 737 had to be small enough that they wouldn’t trigger the need for pilots to undergo new simulator training.

That left the team working on an old architecture and layers of different design philosophies that had piled on over the years, all to serve an international pilot community that was increasingly expecting automation.

“It’s become such a kludge, that we started to speculate and wonder whether it was safe to do the MAX,” Ludtke said.

read the full report here:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... n-the-jet/


FAA had initial version of Boeing’s proposed 737 MAX software fix seven weeks before the Ethiopian crash


read full story here:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ian-crash/

Southwest, the airline with the largest 737 max fleet is feeling the pinch>

The MAX groundings, bad weather and reduced productivity during contract negotiations will together force the cancellation of 9,800 flights in the three months, it said.

Southwest Airlines, the largest U.S. operator of Boeing’s 737 MAX, said the model’s grounding amid safety concerns will combine with soft demand from leisure travelers to shave $150 million off first-quarter revenue.

The amount is on top of a $60 million reduction from the U.S. government shutdown earlier in the period, Southwest said Wednesday.

full story here:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/s ... ft-demand/

The Seattle Times
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seattle_Times
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:14 pm

US Transportation Secretary stops short of saying gov. would require retrofitting all aircraft.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao told a Senate committee on Wednesday it was “very questionable” why some Boeing 737 MAX safety features were not required, but she stopped short of saying the government would require retrofitting all aircraft.

Now where does this leave you, the passenger and you the Pilot ? Will this goddamn plane ever be safe enough to fly ? Boeing should withdraw the 737 from it's program and concentrate on the planes that it has built well over decades. All this patching up will not make the 737 a better plane.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... R81MT?il=0
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