Usable Khymer Language

Have questions or resources regarding Khmer Culture? This forum is all about the Kingdom of Cambodia's culture. Khmer language, Cambodian weddings, French influence, Cambodian architecture, Cambodian politics, Khmer customs, etc? This is the place. Living in Cambodia can cause you to experience a whole new level of culture shock, so feel free to talk about all things related to the Khmer people, and their traditions. And if you want something in Khmer script translated into English, you will probably find what you need.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Kammekor »

explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:30 pm
The way adults learn a language can be quite different from the way young kids learn a language. Young kids can pick it up just by being exposed to it.

Most adults who are serious about learning will want to write it down. If adults learn the conversion rules, and write it down with the French spelling, how close do you believe their pronunciation will be to the way Cambodians speak?
Not close. Your assumption the French used French spelling for the conversion is incorrect.

If it was correct the name of the capital would be pronounced as Fnom Pen.

You're on the wrong track.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

i just spell words the same way as the Khmers commonly Latinize the words, its not accurate if you are trying to study pronunciation from it, but its simplified and easy to read, its the same with English, half the words in the English language are not pronounced how they are written, ill leave this poem as a perfect example...

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation — think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough —
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!*
:tophat: Mean Dtuk Mean Trei, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks :x
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by taabarang »

Well in the US query and very frequently rhyme. But the point of the dogeral hits home thanks to a historical plethora of foreign languages which are. the source of English. The phenomenon is not unique to English, but certainly surpasses that of Khmer.
As my old Cajun bait seller used to say, "I opes you luck.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

When learning Khmer, people can use any method which works for them.

However, I found I did not know how to pronounce some words correctly until I learnt the alphabet and was able to spell them. That is what worked for me.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by sklmeera »

[/quote]
Follow the link I posted
http://www.khmerphrasebook.com/AKOnline ... pterek.asp
[/quote]

Thanks . perfect .
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by UTDTID »

Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:13 pm
explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:58 pm
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:05 pm If you know the conversion rules you can read Khmer in Latin and pronounce it correctly. You just have to be aware which combi of Latin letters relates to what sound. That might be confusing in the beginning, but it will save you months of studying the Khmer characters.
If people learn the conversion rules, how close do you believe it is to the way Cambodians speak?

I know there are some sounds in the Cambodian language you cant write in English, and if you try it is not accurate.
I believe the way it's written is not that important, especially for a beginner. Young kids learn a language by copying sounds. How those sounds are represented in script is another issue that comes later.

I think these are important factors in someone talking accurately:

How good can someone listen and identify the correct sound. Khmer language has a lot of consonants that seem identical, but they are not, they're pronounced slightly different. It all starts with hearing the difference. How that specific sound is converted in a combination of letters (either Khmer or Latin) is the second or the third step.

Next is how good is someone at copying the identified sound. It takes quite some effort to let the muscles in and around your mouth do the right thing. Sometimes it's not the sound itself that makes it difficult, but the place of the sound in a word. Western languages have no words ending with nh / ny / nj like Phnom Penh. Khmer has no words ending with a s-sound. It takes time to learn to make those sounds at that position of the word and it's a condition for being able to speaker correctly.

Next is what I call the rhythm of the language, the way words are pronounced, and the rhythm of a sentence. Khmer have the tendency to put the emphasis on the last syllable of the word, Western languages tend to emphasize the first or the second syllable. A Westerner will emphasize Ratanakiri, a Cambodian will emphasize Ratanakiri or even Ratanakiri. Emphasizing the correct syllable like the Khmer do adds a lot.

If I would be teaching Khmer I would focus on these before even hanging up a poster of the Khmer alphabet.
Really helpful post, I've only been learning a month getting that sound right is not easy. It's interesting what you say about the muscles in the mouth working differently, I was thinking that my accent was the problem. I find that word's like Go, dtow people don't know what I'm saying. Bathroom bontobtuk, I'm understood. Yul. :thumb:
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

UTDTID wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:40 pm
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:13 pm
explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:58 pm
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:05 pm If you know the conversion rules you can read Khmer in Latin and pronounce it correctly. You just have to be aware which combi of Latin letters relates to what sound. That might be confusing in the beginning, but it will save you months of studying the Khmer characters.
If people learn the conversion rules, how close do you believe it is to the way Cambodians speak?

I know there are some sounds in the Cambodian language you cant write in English, and if you try it is not accurate.
I believe the way it's written is not that important, especially for a beginner. Young kids learn a language by copying sounds. How those sounds are represented in script is another issue that comes later.

I think these are important factors in someone talking accurately:

How good can someone listen and identify the correct sound. Khmer language has a lot of consonants that seem identical, but they are not, they're pronounced slightly different. It all starts with hearing the difference. How that specific sound is converted in a combination of letters (either Khmer or Latin) is the second or the third step.

Next is how good is someone at copying the identified sound. It takes quite some effort to let the muscles in and around your mouth do the right thing. Sometimes it's not the sound itself that makes it difficult, but the place of the sound in a word. Western languages have no words ending with nh / ny / nj like Phnom Penh. Khmer has no words ending with a s-sound. It takes time to learn to make those sounds at that position of the word and it's a condition for being able to speaker correctly.

Next is what I call the rhythm of the language, the way words are pronounced, and the rhythm of a sentence. Khmer have the tendency to put the emphasis on the last syllable of the word, Western languages tend to emphasize the first or the second syllable. A Westerner will emphasize Ratanakiri, a Cambodian will emphasize Ratanakiri or even Ratanakiri. Emphasizing the correct syllable like the Khmer do adds a lot.

If I would be teaching Khmer I would focus on these before even hanging up a poster of the Khmer alphabet.
Really helpful post, I've only been learning a month getting that sound right is not easy. It's interesting what you say about the muscles in the mouth working differently, I was thinking that my accent was the problem. I find that word's like Go, dtow people don't know what I'm saying. Bathroom bontobtuk, I'm understood. Yul. :thumb:
yeah, the ៅ vowel i think is probably the most mispronounced sound in the Khmer language by foreigners
whether its people pronouncing the word 'Go' as Toe or 'Stay/at' as Now or actually calling a girl Srey Pov/Ah Pov (with a v sound)
largely to do with that sound i find being quite unique to Khmer its very hard to latinise it, khmers write it using a 'V' (Tov/Nov/Pov) westerners are more likely to use 'oe/ow' but it actually sounds like neither because of the falling tone ^ the vowel creates
:tophat: Mean Dtuk Mean Trei, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks :x
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Spigzy »

Jamie_Lambo wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:03 pm yeah, the ៅ vowel i think is probably the most mispronounced sound in the Khmer language by foreigners
whether its people pronouncing the word 'Go' as Toe or 'Stay/at' as Now or actually calling a girl Srey Pov/Ah Pov (with a v sound)
largely to do with that sound i find being quite unique to Khmer its very hard to latinise it, khmers write it using a 'V' (Tov/Nov/Pov) westerners are more likely to use 'oe/ow' but it actually sounds like neither because of the falling tone ^ the vowel creates
I usually go with a "-al" sound with a half silent l. :hattip:
Meum est propositum in taberna mori,
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Kay Kay »

Hello....
Let me help you learn Khmer language. This channel is all about teaching Khmer to foreigners. It is completely free. Kindly click on the link and don't forget to subscribe. Thank you. Enjoy!
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by UTDTID »

Jamie_Lambo wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:03 pm
UTDTID wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:40 pm
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:13 pm
explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:58 pm
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:05 pm If you know the conversion rules you can read Khmer in Latin and pronounce it correctly. You just have to be aware which combi of Latin letters relates to what sound. That might be confusing in the beginning, but it will save you months of studying the Khmer characters.
If people learn the conversion rules, how close do you believe it is to the way Cambodians speak?

I know there are some sounds in the Cambodian language you cant write in English, and if you try it is not accurate.
I believe the way it's written is not that important, especially for a beginner. Young kids learn a language by copying sounds. How those sounds are represented in script is another issue that comes later.

I think these are important factors in someone talking accurately:

How good can someone listen and identify the correct sound. Khmer language has a lot of consonants that seem identical, but they are not, they're pronounced slightly different. It all starts with hearing the difference. How that specific sound is converted in a combination of letters (either Khmer or Latin) is the second or the third step.

Next is how good is someone at copying the identified sound. It takes quite some effort to let the muscles in and around your mouth do the right thing. Sometimes it's not the sound itself that makes it difficult, but the place of the sound in a word. Western languages have no words ending with nh / ny / nj like Phnom Penh. Khmer has no words ending with a s-sound. It takes time to learn to make those sounds at that position of the word and it's a condition for being able to speaker correctly.

Next is what I call the rhythm of the language, the way words are pronounced, and the rhythm of a sentence. Khmer have the tendency to put the emphasis on the last syllable of the word, Western languages tend to emphasize the first or the second syllable. A Westerner will emphasize Ratanakiri, a Cambodian will emphasize Ratanakiri or even Ratanakiri. Emphasizing the correct syllable like the Khmer do adds a lot.

If I would be teaching Khmer I would focus on these before even hanging up a poster of the Khmer alphabet.
Really helpful post, I've only been learning a month getting that sound right is not easy. It's interesting what you say about the muscles in the mouth working differently, I was thinking that my accent was the problem. I find that word's like Go, dtow people don't know what I'm saying. Bathroom bontobtuk, I'm understood. Yul. :thumb:
yeah, the ៅ vowel i think is probably the most mispronounced sound in the Khmer language by foreigners
whether its people pronouncing the word 'Go' as Toe or 'Stay/at' as Now or actually calling a girl Srey Pov/Ah Pov (with a v sound)
largely to do with that sound i find being quite unique to Khmer its very hard to latinise it, khmers write it using a 'V' (Tov/Nov/Pov) westerners are more likely to use 'oe/ow' but it actually sounds like neither because of the falling tone ^ the vowel creates
Yes Jamie, it's the falling tone that's getting me confused, I think I'm dragging word's out that should be short, and the last syllable not pronounced correctly. Just a case of hit the books and listen oh and wait for the moment my brain kick's in. Hopefully it's not to long a wait. :D
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