Usable Khymer Language

Have questions or resources regarding Khmer Culture? This forum is all about the Kingdom of Cambodia's culture. Khmer language, Cambodian weddings, French influence, Cambodian architecture, Cambodian politics, Khmer customs, etc? This is the place. Living in Cambodia can cause you to experience a whole new level of culture shock, so feel free to talk about all things related to the Khmer people, and their traditions. And if you want something in Khmer script translated into English, you will probably find what you need.
explorer
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:05 pm If you know the conversion rules you can read Khmer in Latin and pronounce it correctly. You just have to be aware which combi of Latin letters relates to what sound. That might be confusing in the beginning, but it will save you months of studying the Khmer characters.
If you learn the conversion rules, you may be correct.

However, many people do not learn the conversion rules, but just pronounce it the way those letters sound in English.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Kammekor »

explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:12 pm
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:05 pm If you know the conversion rules you can read Khmer in Latin and pronounce it correctly. You just have to be aware which combi of Latin letters relates to what sound. That might be confusing in the beginning, but it will save you months of studying the Khmer characters.
If you learn the conversion rules, you may be correct.

However, many people do not learn the conversion rules, but just pronounce it the way those letters sound in English.
Isn't that silly? For people on a two week holiday I can understand they do that and Phnom Penh becomes Pnom Pen or something, but people trying to learn the language?

Would they do the same if they learned German, or French, or Italian, or Dutch?

The letter combination ee in Dutch is pronounced differently from the English ee for instance, so assuming you know how to pronounce the Dutch word 'eend' by just looking at the letters and pronouncing it the way it would be pronounced in English is naive to put it mildly.

Once you have connected certain letters/combinations to a sound you can start learning the language. Not before that.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:05 pm If you know the conversion rules you can read Khmer in Latin and pronounce it correctly. You just have to be aware which combi of Latin letters relates to what sound. That might be confusing in the beginning, but it will save you months of studying the Khmer characters.
If people learn the conversion rules, how close do you believe it is to the way Cambodians speak?

I know there are some sounds in the Cambodian language you cant write in English, and if you try it is not accurate.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by taabarang »

[Mod edit: Stop baiting fellow members. Thanks.]
As my old Cajun bait seller used to say, "I opes you luck.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Kammekor »

explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:58 pm
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:05 pm If you know the conversion rules you can read Khmer in Latin and pronounce it correctly. You just have to be aware which combi of Latin letters relates to what sound. That might be confusing in the beginning, but it will save you months of studying the Khmer characters.
If people learn the conversion rules, how close do you believe it is to the way Cambodians speak?

I know there are some sounds in the Cambodian language you cant write in English, and if you try it is not accurate.
I believe the way it's written is not that important, especially for a beginner. Young kids learn a language by copying sounds. How those sounds are represented in script is another issue that comes later.

I think these are important factors in someone talking accurately:

How good can someone listen and identify the correct sound. Khmer language has a lot of consonants that seem identical, but they are not, they're pronounced slightly different. It all starts with hearing the difference. How that specific sound is converted in a combination of letters (either Khmer or Latin) is the second or the third step.

Next is how good is someone at copying the identified sound. It takes quite some effort to let the muscles in and around your mouth do the right thing. Sometimes it's not the sound itself that makes it difficult, but the place of the sound in a word. Western languages have no words ending with nh / ny / nj like Phnom Penh. Khmer has no words ending with a s-sound. It takes time to learn to make those sounds at that position of the word and it's a condition for being able to speaker correctly.

Next is what I call the rhythm of the language, the way words are pronounced, and the rhythm of a sentence. Khmer have the tendency to put the emphasis on the last syllable of the word, Western languages tend to emphasize the first or the second syllable. A Westerner will emphasize Ratanakiri, a Cambodian will emphasize Ratanakiri or even Ratanakiri. Emphasizing the correct syllable like the Khmer do adds a lot.

If I would be teaching Khmer I would focus on these before even hanging up a poster of the Khmer alphabet.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by taabarang »

'"Sometimes it's not the sound itself that makes it difficult, but the place of the sound in a word."

The technical term for this is point or place of articulation.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Kayve »

Can we set up a ring where instead of fists we would use khmer words ?

Jamie vs Explorer vs Kammekor

Make your bets people :stir:
Don't forget the water buffalo
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:13 pm
explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:58 pm
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:05 pm If you know the conversion rules you can read Khmer in Latin and pronounce it correctly. You just have to be aware which combi of Latin letters relates to what sound. That might be confusing in the beginning, but it will save you months of studying the Khmer characters.
If people learn the conversion rules, how close do you believe it is to the way Cambodians speak?

I know there are some sounds in the Cambodian language you cant write in English, and if you try it is not accurate.
I believe the way it's written is not that important, especially for a beginner. Young kids learn a language by copying sounds. How those sounds are represented in script is another issue that comes later.

I think these are important factors in someone talking accurately:

How good can someone listen and identify the correct sound. Khmer language has a lot of consonants that seem identical, but they are not, they're pronounced slightly different. It all starts with hearing the difference. How that specific sound is converted in a combination of letters (either Khmer or Latin) is the second or the third step.

Next is how good is someone at copying the identified sound. It takes quite some effort to let the muscles in and around your mouth do the right thing. Sometimes it's not the sound itself that makes it difficult, but the place of the sound in a word. Western languages have no words ending with nh / ny / nj like Phnom Penh. Khmer has no words ending with a s-sound. It takes time to learn to make those sounds at that position of the word and it's a condition for being able to speaker correctly.

Next is what I call the rhythm of the language, the way words are pronounced, and the rhythm of a sentence. Khmer have the tendency to put the emphasis on the last syllable of the word, Western languages tend to emphasize the first or the second syllable. A Westerner will emphasize Ratanakiri, a Cambodian will emphasize Ratanakiri or even Ratanakiri. Emphasizing the correct syllable like the Khmer do adds a lot.

If I would be teaching Khmer I would focus on these before even hanging up a poster of the Khmer alphabet.
The way adults learn a language can be quite different from the way young kids learn a language. Young kids can pick it up just by being exposed to it.

Most adults who are serious about learning will want to write it down. If adults learn the conversion rules, and write it down with the French spelling, how close do you believe their pronunciation will be to the way Cambodians speak?
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

Kayve wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:16 pm Can we set up a ring where instead of fists we would use khmer words ?

Jamie vs Explorer vs Kammekor
These are friendly discussions. We all learn by sharing.

It is not a competition. When I meet people who speak Khmer better than me, I dont feel bad. When people who dont speak Khmer as well as me, meet me, they shouldnt feel bad. Good on everybody for putting the effort in to learn as much as they have learnt.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by taabarang »

"It is not a competition."

No it's an endurance contest. Give the same old shit over and over again a rest.
As my old Cajun bait seller used to say, "I opes you luck.
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