Usable Khymer Language

Have questions or resources regarding Khmer Culture? This forum is all about the Kingdom of Cambodia's culture. Khmer language, Cambodian weddings, French influence, Cambodian architecture, Cambodian politics, Khmer customs, etc? This is the place. Living in Cambodia can cause you to experience a whole new level of culture shock, so feel free to talk about all things related to the Khmer people, and their traditions. And if you want something in Khmer script translated into English, you will probably find what you need.
Barang chgout
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Re: Usable Khmer Language

Post by Barang chgout »

phuketrichard wrote:
explorer wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:26 pm No doubt you know already, but with all of the words, ask the locals to say them for your, and get your pronunciation from them. Some sounds are not the same as English.
:please:
god,please stop stating the obvious
we are not 8 years old
The ignore function seems to work.


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phuketrichard
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Re: Usable Khmer Language

Post by phuketrichard »

Barang chgout wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:39 am
phuketrichard wrote:
explorer wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:26 pm No doubt you know already, but with all of the words, ask the locals to say them for your, and get your pronunciation from them. Some sounds are not the same as English.
:please:
god,please stop stating the obvious
we are not 8 years old
The ignore function seems to work.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk
LOL:
i thought <( wrongly) that eventually he would take the hints so many of us are leaving him but.. " stupid is as stupid does"
he just got put on my ignore list :thumb:
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

There are some words mentioned previously which are not spelt how I would pronounce them.

Maybe some people dont speak Khmer well.

Maybe some people speak with a different English accent, and as a result spell things differently.

There is no correct way to write Khmer using English letters.

Rather than having another discussion on how to spell Khmer words in English, it is easier to say, ask the locals how to pronounce them.

There are some people who pronounce Khmer they way it is spelt in French or English, and speak Khmer badly.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Kammekor
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Kammekor »

explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:27 am <cut>

There is no correct way to write Khmer using English letters.
<cut>
That's not true, there's an official conversion table that's used by the government and reliable translators. It's used when for instance Cambodian names have to be written in Latin script. There's absolutely no doubt on how to converse a Khmer word into Latin with that table. That method is unambiguous.

The fact people posting here don't use it doesn't mean there is none.

For instance the name បញ្ញា is converted into Panha using the official conversion rules, where I would convert it to Panja because in my language an h is never pronounced as a j-sound. When I had to translate my kids birth certificate at the MoFA a few years ago I needed quite some (monetary) persuasion to convince the officer at the MoFA to not use the official conversion table but instead convert បញ្ញា to Panja.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:41 am
explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:27 am There is no correct way to write Khmer using English letters.
That's not true, there's an official conversion table that's used by the government and reliable translators. It's used when for instance Cambodian names have to be written in Latin script. There's absolutely no doubt on how to converse a Khmer word into Latin with that table. That method is unambiguous.

The fact people posting here don't use it doesn't mean there is none.

For instance the name បញ្ញា is converted into Panha using the official conversion rules, where I would convert it to Panja because in my language an h is never pronounced as a j-sound. When I had to translate my kids birth certificate at the MoFA a few years ago I needed quite some (monetary) persuasion to convince the officer at the MoFA to not use the official conversion table but instead convert បញ្ញា to Panja.
Like you say, when you pronounce it in English, or another language, the sound is not the same. So if people used this for learning Khmer, they would pronounce it badly.

I like to encourage people to learn the Khmer alphabet, and learn the pronunciation from Cambodian people.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

The French had a system of writing Khmer using French letters. This may be the same.

Possibly people who speak French using this method may speak Khmer reasonably well. I dont speak French.

When people speaking English, use the French spelling, and pronounce it the way those letters sound in English, it is much different from the way Cambodians speak.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by Kammekor »

explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:58 am
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:41 am
explorer wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:27 am There is no correct way to write Khmer using English letters.
That's not true, there's an official conversion table that's used by the government and reliable translators. It's used when for instance Cambodian names have to be written in Latin script. There's absolutely no doubt on how to converse a Khmer word into Latin with that table. That method is unambiguous.

The fact people posting here don't use it doesn't mean there is none.

For instance the name បញ្ញា is converted into Panha using the official conversion rules, where I would convert it to Panja because in my language an h is never pronounced as a j-sound. When I had to translate my kids birth certificate at the MoFA a few years ago I needed quite some (monetary) persuasion to convince the officer at the MoFA to not use the official conversion table but instead convert បញ្ញា to Panja.

Like you say, when you pronounce it in English, or another language, the sound is not the same. So if people used this for learning Khmer, they would pronounce it badly.


I like to encourage people to learn the Khmer alphabet, and learn the pronunciation from Cambodian people.
Why? The conversion is unambiguous. A ញ becomes a nh. So a nh will sound the same all the time.

Ideally everyone will learn the Khmer alphabet, but that's not realistic. While it adds a level of refinement if you can read the Khmer script it's no condition for learning conversational Khmer.
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by phuketrichard »

Agree 1,000 % with Kammekor
My Khmer gf and her sister grew up poor and as such never went to school and had to work as soon as they were old enough... cant read or write khmer
She speaks fluent, so to say it is required or even necessary to read an write is just BS> i bet 25% or more of the population cant read or write!!

same goes for thai, which I can speak but cant read or write, other then menus an street signs
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by explorer »

Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:24 am Why? The conversion is unambiguous. A ញ becomes a nh. So a nh will sound the same all the time.
The French wrote it nh. The sound is actually ny.
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:24 am For instance the name បញ្ញា is converted into Panha using the official conversion rules, where I would convert it to Panja because in my language an h is never pronounced as a j-sound. When I had to translate my kids birth certificate at the MoFA a few years ago I needed quite some (monetary) persuasion to convince the officer at the MoFA to not use the official conversion table but instead convert បញ្ញា to Panja.
There is no absolute right or wrong here. You can spell it how you like. However if you listen to how the Cambodians pronounce it, it is Bunya.

If you ask them to write it, many will spell it with the French spelling.

I speak with an Australian accent. Someone who speaks with a different accent may spell it differently.
Kammekor wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:24 am Ideally everyone will learn the Khmer alphabet, but that's not realistic. While it adds a level of refinement if you can read the Khmer script it's no condition for learning conversational Khmer.
Everybody has free choice. It is up to them what they do.

However, it is not difficult to learn the Khmer letters. It only looks difficult for those who dont try.

After learning the alphabet, it is easier to get the pronunciation more accurate.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Usable Khymer Language

Post by khmerhamster »

phuketrichard wrote:Agree 1,000 % with Kammekor
My Khmer gf and her sister grew up poor and as such never went to school and had to work as soon as they were old enough... cant read or write khmer
She speaks fluent, so to say it is required or even necessary to read an write is just BS> i bet 25% or more of the population cant read or write!!

same goes for thai, which I can speak but cant read or write, other then menus an street signs
Explorer is clearly on sticky ground but this is just a dopey post.
He clearly isn’t talking about native speakers.

Any native speaker learning as a child speaks before they can read and write. He’s talking about adult learners learning a second language - I thought that was incredibly obvious.
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