explorer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:26 am

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:18 am

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:24 pm its not Chnung, Saucepan is spelt ឆ្នាំង Chhnang, pronounced the same as ខ្លាំង Klang (strong) but with a Chhn-ang instead of Kl-ang

Delicious isnt Chngun(y) its spelt ឆ្ងាញ់ Chhnganh, starts with a Chhng sound and ends in an -anh sound (the same final sound thats in Srolanh/Somlanh)

theres no 'u' sound in either of the words

my point clearly was you using and teaching that the two words have a 'U' sound when it definitely doesnt

This is most likely explained by the difference between a British accent and an Australian accent.

You will probably find British people will pronounce it better if they follow your spelling, and Australians will probably pronounce it better if they follow my spelling. I know there is a wide range of different accents in the UK, it might not apply to all.

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:44 am

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:12 am

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:45 am

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:40 am

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:53 am Again, j is not at all the sound. You're making me wonder if you're a native speaker of English with these two past comments comments. Ch or tch would be the best approximate romanizations of ច, though you could also argue for tchj/jtch, but that's not practical. Though there is a slight j in there, the dominant sound isn't an English j at all. The consonant itself has a stronger j sound, but when pronounced in a word such as above (with no air coming out) it sounds more like a soft tch to most English speakers.

Again, arguing about romanization is a bit silly given that anyone can have their own version of it, and none could be accurate to other people.

while i agree its not a full on clean J sound, there are many words that use the ច consonant that i and many others would spell with a J instead of an English Ch

i write these words with a J sound
ចូល - Joul
ចិត្ដ - Jet
ចង់ - Jong
ចម្រៀង - Jomreung
ច្រៀង - Jreung
ចាំ - Jam
ចេះ - Jeh
ចាក - Jak
ចេញ - Jenh

on the other hand i would spell these with a Ch as they have a litte less of a J sound than the above
ច្រើន - Chrern
ចាស - Chas
ចាប់ - Chab

I think that's the influence from the French. The j in French words as jour, jeune, Julliet, is much softer and has a little of zj in it, as opposed to the English j in job, Jones, .... There's too much of a d-sound in it for me.

If using a 'French Romanazation' I get the of the j, but not if using the way English pronounces the j.

i dont speak french so have no idea about that
i just know the J/ch sound is similar to that in Jump, Juice, Jewel, Jester , Junk, Judge

its a vary thin line and i dont see any problem anyone using either out of preference, but to say theres no 'J' sound at all i find a very false statement, like many Khmer consonants the sound is somewhere in between like the V/w consonant, the B/p, the D/t, the G/k consonants too

When I said no-j-sound, I meant the j-sound as it sounds in English, or at least as we (Dutchies) make it sound. We make it sound a bit like 'Djon', 'Djoseph', 'Djack'.... Maybe they taught us so to differentiate the j from the y. I couldn't come up with a Khmer word with that dj sound in it.
A 'zj' sound as in the French word 'toujours' or a 'pure j' as in the English word 'young' I can hear in Khmer words.

F*ck... It's so hard to discuss this matter on forum without hearing the actual sounds. I give up.

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:39 am

explorer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:26 am

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:18 am

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:24 pm its not Chnung, Saucepan is spelt ឆ្នាំង Chhnang, pronounced the same as ខ្លាំង Klang (strong) but with a Chhn-ang instead of Kl-ang

Delicious isnt Chngun(y) its spelt ឆ្ងាញ់ Chhnganh, starts with a Chhng sound and ends in an -anh sound (the same final sound thats in Srolanh/Somlanh)

theres no 'u' sound in either of the words

my point clearly was you using and teaching that the two words have a 'U' sound when it definitely doesnt

This is most likely explained by the difference between a British accent and an Australian accent.

You will probably find British people will pronounce it better if they follow your spelling, and Australians will probably pronounce it better if they follow my spelling. I know there is a wide range of different accents in the UK, it might not apply to all.

but your spelling is incorrect, and if you are pronouncing it with a U sound you are pronouncing it incorrect, you should write it as it sounds, it is an open 'Ah' sound not a 'U' sound of any sort, i do know what youre saying for example the word Cunt, an aussy would probably pronounce it more as Kant, but in this case you are doing the opposite, you are writing a word that is for example actually spelt Kant and writing it as Cunt, which doesnt make sense

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:54 am for sure mate, especially with everyone coming from different nationalities
i know where your difficulties are coming from too, its like with my Swedish friends, one is called Johannas so i call him Johannas with an English J, so it sounds like Joe-hannas, but when my Swedish friends say his name its definitely more of a Yo-hannas,
so i can see were your confusion with the J sound comes from, in British English the J/Ch sound is almost indistinguishable

aisaexplore wrote:Looks like this thread is going to an other topic.