Tricky grammar question

Have questions or resources regarding Khmer Culture? This forum is all about the Kingdom of Cambodia's culture. Khmer language, Cambodian weddings, French influence, Cambodian architecture, Cambodian politics, Khmer customs, etc? This is the place. Living in Cambodia can cause you to experience a whole new level of culture shock, so feel free to talk about all things related to the Khmer people, and their traditions. And if you want something in Khmer script translated into English, you will probably find what you need.
User avatar
Kammekor
Expatriate
Posts: 1183
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:50 pm
Reputation: 335
Cambodia

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by Kammekor » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:13 am

explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm
bobsboots wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:14 pm
In English, it is common to use two comparatives in one statement such as " The harder you study, the easier it gets." or even just by using 'more' as in " The more you study, the more you learn.
Does anyone know the Khmer version of this, if one exists ?
I have never heard Cambodians use a saying with an equivalent meaning.
I think the question partly went over your head. While the Cambodian maybe don't use the two comparatives like "The harder you study, the easier it gets" they use the structure with two comparatives a lot. And I mean A LOT.

The official structure is:

kante​ (កាន់តែ​) first comparitive
kante​ (កាន់តែ​) second comparitive

You will hear: "the younger, the more beautiful" a lot, for instance.
explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm
Your version

រៀន ច្រើន
ចេះ ច្រើន
reun jraan je jraan
is the easy / cut / lazy version where the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​) is dropped. You can do that if there's a verb in the comparative. If you just want to compare two adjectives (The more beautiful, the more expensive for instance) you can not drop the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​).

In that case you have to say the full structure:

kante​ (កាន់តែ​) s'aat
kante​ (កាន់តែ​) tlai

otherwise the statement has no meaning at all. So better to just use the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​) whenever you make a comparative like this all time.
bobsboots
Expatriate
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:10 am
Reputation: 74
Great Britain

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by bobsboots » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:27 pm

Kammekor wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:13 am
explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm
bobsboots wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:14 pm
In English, it is common to use two comparatives in one statement such as " The harder you study, the easier it gets." or even just by using 'more' as in " The more you study, the more you learn.
Does anyone know the Khmer version of this, if one exists ?
I have never heard Cambodians use a saying with an equivalent meaning.
I think the question partly went over your head. While the Cambodian maybe don't use the two comparatives like "The harder you study, the easier it gets" they use the structure with two comparatives a lot. And I mean A LOT.

The official structure is:

kante​ (កាន់តែ​) first comparitive
kante​ (កាន់តែ​) second comparitive

You will hear: "the younger, the more beautiful" a lot, for instance.
explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm
Your version

រៀន ច្រើន
ចេះ ច្រើន
reun jraan je jraan
is the easy / cut / lazy version where the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​) is dropped. You can do that if there's a verb in the comparative. If you just want to compare two adjectives (The more beautiful, the more expensive for instance) you can not drop the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​).

In that case you have to say the full structure:

kante​ (កាន់តែ​) s'aat
kante​ (កាន់តែ​) tlai

otherwise the statement has no meaning at all. So better to just use the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​) whenever you make a comparative like this all time.
Great post. Thanks
User avatar
Jamie_Lambo
The Cool Boxing Guy
Posts: 13503
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:34 am
Reputation: 1731
Location: Naklua
Contact:
Great Britain

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by Jamie_Lambo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:52 am

bobsboots wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:33 pm
Kayve wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:59 pm
Jamie is more reliable than google translate :beer3:
Was thinking the same.
bobsboots wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:27 pm
Kammekor wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:13 am
explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm
bobsboots wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:14 pm
In English, it is common to use two comparatives in one statement such as " The harder you study, the easier it gets." or even just by using 'more' as in " The more you study, the more you learn.
Does anyone know the Khmer version of this, if one exists ?
I have never heard Cambodians use a saying with an equivalent meaning.
I think the question partly went over your head. While the Cambodian maybe don't use the two comparatives like "The harder you study, the easier it gets" they use the structure with two comparatives a lot. And I mean A LOT.

The official structure is:

kante​ (កាន់តែ​) first comparitive
kante​ (កាន់តែ​) second comparitive

You will hear: "the younger, the more beautiful" a lot, for instance.
explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm
Your version

រៀន ច្រើន
ចេះ ច្រើន
reun jraan je jraan
is the easy / cut / lazy version where the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​) is dropped. You can do that if there's a verb in the comparative. If you just want to compare two adjectives (The more beautiful, the more expensive for instance) you can not drop the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​).

In that case you have to say the full structure:

kante​ (កាន់តែ​) s'aat
kante​ (កាន់តែ​) tlai

otherwise the statement has no meaning at all. So better to just use the word kante​ (កាន់តែ​) whenever you make a comparative like this all time.
Great post. Thanks
Sorry late to the party....

yeah Kammekor pretty much nailed it, កាន់តែ "Kan Tae" is often used when making comparisons, it means like "more and more" "increasingly" "Constantly" "the more..." i think the more formal term is "រឹតតែ" Ruk Tae

i think in written form the correct term for comparing 2 things is something like "បើសិនជាបាន ... រឹតតែ ... ទៅទៀត" (Ber Sen Jia Ban.... Ruk Tae...... Tov Tiet) basically... "if it is.... the... furthermore"
eg, this phrase "the sooner the better" បើសិនជាបានឆាប់​ រឹតតែល្អជាងទៅទៀត (Ber Sen Jia Ban Chhab, Ruk Tae Laor Jiang Tov Tiet)

but thats all a bit deep or over working it,
i'm much more familiar with the simple "Kan Tae"
heres some lyrics to a Khmer song i like that uses it...

កាន់តែស្អប់កាន់តែនឹកកាន់តែគិតក្នុងចិត្តកាន់តែចង់យំ
Kan Tae Saob, Kan Tae Nuk, Kan Tae Kit Knong Jet, Kan Tae Jong Yom
the more i hate you, the more i miss you, the more i think in my heart, the more i want to cry
:tophat: Mean Dtuk Mean Trei, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks :x
siliconlife
Expatriate
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 6:29 pm
Reputation: 63
Australia

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by siliconlife » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:08 am

Re Google Translate, I think it's useless for grammar purposes. I've heard Cambodians say រៀន ច្រើន ចេះ ច្រើន many times, but Kammakor's and Jamie's analyses are accurate for what the OP directly wants to translate.
User avatar
Username Taken
Raven
Posts: 9757
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:53 pm
Reputation: 1400
Contact:
Cambodia

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by Username Taken » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:42 am

explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:25 pm
A common saying in Khmer is:

ចេះ មក ពី រៀន

មាន មក ពី រក

Which translated in English is:

To know how to comes from learning.

To have comes from earning.
I thought រក means 'to look for'.

Thus, 'To have comes from looking'.
... give 'em a quick, short, sharp shock ...

https://BooksAboutCambodia.com
explorer
Expatriate
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:37 pm
Reputation: 395
Australia

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by explorer » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:02 pm

Username Taken wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:42 am
explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:25 pm
A common saying in Khmer is:

ចេះ មក ពី រៀន

មាន មក ពី រក

Which translated in English is:

To know how to comes from learning.

To have comes from earning.
I thought រក means 'to look for'.

Thus, 'To have comes from looking'.
រក does mean 'look for,' and that is the most common situation you will hear it used in.

It is also used to mean earn.

'To have comes from looking,' or 'To have comes from looking for,' doesn't really make sense. To have comes from earning.

Many Cambodians will tell you រក means find, because they think find means look for.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
User avatar
Username Taken
Raven
Posts: 9757
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:53 pm
Reputation: 1400
Contact:
Cambodia

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by Username Taken » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:17 pm

Which dictionary defines រក as meaning to earn? You might be thinking of រកបាន.

"'To have comes from looking,' or 'To have comes from looking for,' doesn't really make sense."

Ever heard of 'seek and you shall find'?
... give 'em a quick, short, sharp shock ...

https://BooksAboutCambodia.com
siliconlife
Expatriate
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 6:29 pm
Reputation: 63
Australia

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by siliconlife » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:28 pm

explorer wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:02 pm
Username Taken wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:42 am
explorer wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:25 pm
A common saying in Khmer is:

ចេះ មក ពី រៀន

មាន មក ពី រក

Which translated in English is:

To know how to comes from learning.

To have comes from earning.
I thought រក means 'to look for'.

Thus, 'To have comes from looking'.
រក does mean 'look for,' and that is the most common situation you will hear it used in.

It is also used to mean earn.

'To have comes from looking,' or 'To have comes from looking for,' doesn't really make sense. To have comes from earning.

Many Cambodians will tell you រក means find, because they think find means look for.
My understanding was that "រក" is closer to "find", but quite a broad term, whereas "រកមើល" would be "to look for"? And I use "រកបាន" to mean "found". This works for me in daily language.
explorer
Expatriate
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:37 pm
Reputation: 395
Australia

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by explorer » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:13 pm

siliconlife wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:28 pm
My understanding was that "រក" is closer to "find", but quite a broad term, whereas "រកមើល" would be "to look for"? And I use "រកបាន" to mean "found". This works for me in daily language.
"រក" means look for. "បាន" means have.

"រកបាន" means "look for - have," which means find or found. Found is the past tense of find. Same meaning, just different tense.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
siliconlife
Expatriate
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 6:29 pm
Reputation: 63
Australia

Re: Tricky grammar question

Post by siliconlife » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:46 pm

explorer wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:13 pm
siliconlife wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:28 pm
My understanding was that "រក" is closer to "find", but quite a broad term, whereas "រកមើល" would be "to look for"? And I use "រកបាន" to mean "found". This works for me in daily language.
"រក" means look for. "បាន" means have.

"រកបាន" means "look for - have," which means find or found. Found is the past tense of find. Same meaning, just different tense.
បាន also means "get" though, and could even be compared to "achieve". I have never personally heard someone use រកបាន to mean anything else but "found" (past tense), unless you wanted to say "want to find" but that is a different term. Whereas I frequently hear and use either រក or រកមើល for present tense (find/look for). That's just to my experience though.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cambo Dear, Yerg and 49 guests