Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by angkorjohn » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:54 am

fax wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:46 am

Everyone makes decisions and we are responsible for those.

couldn't agree more Fax.
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by khmerhamster » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:14 am

angkorjohn wrote:
khmerhamster wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:57 am
Hotdigr wrote:
John Bingham wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:38 pm

The British Embassy don't give a fuck about any of that people business.
Not sure you are correct there mate. Back in 2015, we had a young guy from Jersey die in the G/H in S/ville I was working in. One of the, if not the, most respected expats in town was the British Embassy's representative ( I think he held the title "consul", but not sure") a wholly volunteer position. Within an hour he was on the scene and directing/organising everything from getting the body picked up by CT clinic (whose ambulance had arrived earlier, taken one look and driven off again) to the police ( I can say with 100% certainty that the G/H owner paid NO money to the police for the death on his premises) to bringing the family in to talk to us when they arrived 4 days later. Ok, the embassy itself got involved in no way that I am aware of, but the compassion and competency shown by their representative was amazing. That's definitely more a reflection on him rather then the embassy, but the point is that they DID have someone in place to deal with situations like this. 2015 was a particularly bad time in S/ville and I know this bloke dealt with many similar situations in the same way, with the same compassion and competency. I will stress again though - he was a local expat business man, not a bureaucrat. He is still performing the same role today btw.
That’s kinda the problem.
The embassy relies on good people who volunteer their time. I have found paid embassy staff to be disinterested and particularly useless.
I have a friend here who volunteered to visit a Brit in prison many years ago - at the embassy request. They plagued him for years after that asking him to continue this work with no payment or benefit bestowed. He ended up telling them to piss off and use their own paid staff.
Some people may volunteer their free time to go, well good for them, maybe you should go volunteer if you think it's such a worthy cause?
My point used prison visits as an example, the one above used a different example.
At the end of the day I am not paid to provide embassy or consular support to British citizens. Would I do it for a friend? probably, possibly depending on situation.
There aren’t many with positive tales to tell of embassy support in Cambodia. I think that tells a story in itself.
Several times I have heard ‘sorry we don’t provide that service’ when I have seen evidence that other embassies do. Not only do they not provide the service but offer no advice for a way forward.
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by angkorjohn » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:32 am

khmerhamster wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:14 am
angkorjohn wrote:
khmerhamster wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:57 am
Hotdigr wrote:
John Bingham wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:38 pm

The British Embassy don't give a fuck about any of that people business.
Not sure you are correct there mate. Back in 2015, we had a young guy from Jersey die in the G/H in S/ville I was working in. One of the, if not the, most respected expats in town was the British Embassy's representative ( I think he held the title "consul", but not sure") a wholly volunteer position. Within an hour he was on the scene and directing/organising everything from getting the body picked up by CT clinic (whose ambulance had arrived earlier, taken one look and driven off again) to the police ( I can say with 100% certainty that the G/H owner paid NO money to the police for the death on his premises) to bringing the family in to talk to us when they arrived 4 days later. Ok, the embassy itself got involved in no way that I am aware of, but the compassion and competency shown by their representative was amazing. That's definitely more a reflection on him rather then the embassy, but the point is that they DID have someone in place to deal with situations like this. 2015 was a particularly bad time in S/ville and I know this bloke dealt with many similar situations in the same way, with the same compassion and competency. I will stress again though - he was a local expat business man, not a bureaucrat. He is still performing the same role today btw.
That’s kinda the problem.
The embassy relies on good people who volunteer their time. I have found paid embassy staff to be disinterested and particularly useless.
I have a friend here who volunteered to visit a Brit in prison many years ago - at the embassy request. They plagued him for years after that asking him to continue this work with no payment or benefit bestowed. He ended up telling them to piss off and use their own paid staff.
Some people may volunteer their free time to go, well good for them, maybe you should go volunteer if you think it's such a worthy cause?
My point used prison visits as an example, the one above used a different example.
At the end of the day I am not paid to provide embassy or consular support to British citizens. Would I do it for a friend? probably, possibly depending on situation.
There aren’t many with positive tales to tell of embassy support in Cambodia. I think that tells a story in itself.
Several times I have heard ‘sorry we don’t provide that service’ when I have seen evidence that other embassies do. Not only do they not provide the service but offer no advice for a way forward.
see my earlier point, every embassy is different in what they can and cannot provide as determined by their own government's policy, so this is not specific to just the embassy of your country in Cambodia but will be a global policy. I have never had a need for the US Embassy save for a passport and a few notary things.

I'm interested to hear what services you expect from your embassy? What is it they haven't provided?

I've heard people moaning all sorts of shit over the years about embassies and it's usually because they are too dumb to follow instructions or have fucked up and expected mummy to look after them. most common things:

"the embassy don't provide flights home when you fuck up"

I don't know any that do, most, however, will mediate with a family member or friend to fund a ticket or in circumstances that isn't available will loan the money and on arrival in their home country, the passport is confiscated until the loan is repaid.

"i went to the embassy to change my passport and they said they didn't do it there and I had to go to a separate place to do it"

Well thats absolutely the case you gotta go to the separate place just like it tells you on the website. People are just either to lazy or stupid to read what they have to do and where they have to go and what process they have to follow and then complain when they are told it can't be done. It is all listed on your countries embassy website what they can and cannot do, and if you're problem fits into the cannot then sorry , you are on your own and you need to fix whatever problem you got yourself into another way.

I see on the expat forums every day the number of stupid questions around the most basic things from expats that you have to wonder how they managed to reach adulthood never mind buy a ticket to a foreign country.
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by khmerhamster » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 am

angkorjohn wrote:
khmerhamster wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:14 am
angkorjohn wrote:
khmerhamster wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:57 am
Hotdigr wrote: Not sure you are correct there mate. Back in 2015, we had a young guy from Jersey die in the G/H in S/ville I was working in. One of the, if not the, most respected expats in town was the British Embassy's representative ( I think he held the title "consul", but not sure") a wholly volunteer position. Within an hour he was on the scene and directing/organising everything from getting the body picked up by CT clinic (whose ambulance had arrived earlier, taken one look and driven off again) to the police ( I can say with 100% certainty that the G/H owner paid NO money to the police for the death on his premises) to bringing the family in to talk to us when they arrived 4 days later. Ok, the embassy itself got involved in no way that I am aware of, but the compassion and competency shown by their representative was amazing. That's definitely more a reflection on him rather then the embassy, but the point is that they DID have someone in place to deal with situations like this. 2015 was a particularly bad time in S/ville and I know this bloke dealt with many similar situations in the same way, with the same compassion and competency. I will stress again though - he was a local expat business man, not a bureaucrat. He is still performing the same role today btw.
That’s kinda the problem.
The embassy relies on good people who volunteer their time. I have found paid embassy staff to be disinterested and particularly useless.
I have a friend here who volunteered to visit a Brit in prison many years ago - at the embassy request. They plagued him for years after that asking him to continue this work with no payment or benefit bestowed. He ended up telling them to piss off and use their own paid staff.
Some people may volunteer their free time to go, well good for them, maybe you should go volunteer if you think it's such a worthy cause?
My point used prison visits as an example, the one above used a different example.
At the end of the day I am not paid to provide embassy or consular support to British citizens. Would I do it for a friend? probably, possibly depending on situation.
There aren’t many with positive tales to tell of embassy support in Cambodia. I think that tells a story in itself.
Several times I have heard ‘sorry we don’t provide that service’ when I have seen evidence that other embassies do. Not only do they not provide the service but offer no advice for a way forward.
see my earlier point, every embassy is different in what they can and cannot provide as determined by their own government's policy, so this is not specific to just the embassy of your country in Cambodia but will be a global policy. I have never had a need for the US Embassy save for a passport and a few notary things.

I'm interested to hear what services you expect from your embassy? What is it they haven't provided?
Verify a document from a U.K. institution. Basically read a certificate and confirm that it is legit. Multiple other embassies do this (seen evidence) and Cambodia ministry wouldn’t move forward without it. U.K. embassy - flat no.
There is also the case of someone going to report suspected sex crimes against children to the embassy staff (this was of an individual not yet in country but who had plans to return). Embassy wouldn’t get involved - maybe understandably - but also wouldn’t offer advice as to how the person reporting the suspected crimes could proceed. (I know this because the person was subsequently referred to me for advice).
Another time a ministry asked me to get a statement from my embassy to say that they were aware of my work in Cambodia (NGO). Embassy said they they don’t provide such confirmations. Not would they give me a written statement to say that they don’t provide confirmations.

Seems to be things non standard - not fitting their flowchart is refused. It’s possible to say no and be helpful, I found them unwilling to do that.

And what is it about having to give up your phone when you go in? what a pain in the ass trying to compete forms when most of the pertinent information required is saved on your phone.
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by angkorjohn » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:00 am

khmerhamster wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 am

And what is it about having to give up your phone when you go in? what a pain in the ass trying to compete forms when most of the pertinent information required is saved on your phone.
Ok fair points of your experience although if it genuinely isn't something they do then you can't be surprised if they don't do it. Although I take your points about how it was responded to which does seem to be the individual rather than the embassy.

As for the phone, you should try the US embassy, it makes airport security at JFK seem tame....they stop just short of strip searching you!
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by newkidontheblock » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:14 am

angkorjohn wrote:As for the phone, you should try the US embassy, it makes airport security at JFK seem tame....they stop just short of strip searching you!
Embassy staff do watch Mission Impossible/James Bond moves. They are well aware that a cell phone can compromise their entire security infrastructure. As well as potentially blow up as well.
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by khmerhamster » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:03 pm

angkorjohn wrote:
khmerhamster wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 am

And what is it about having to give up your phone when you go in? what a pain in the ass trying to compete forms when most of the pertinent information required is saved on your phone.
Ok fair points of your experience although if it genuinely isn't something they do then you can't be surprised if they don't do it. Although I take your points about how it was responded to which does seem to be the individual rather than the embassy.
2 final points from me to end this sideshow. Nearly every time I have attended the embassy I have met a different person. I got the same/similar indifferent attitude from each. Suggests (to me) that it is not related to an individual.

Lastly, if many other embassies provide a service and your host country is demanding it then I think it is reasonable to be surprised and aggrieved if your embassy does not provide it.
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by that genius » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:18 pm

angkorjohn wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:51 am
To expect embassies to come and pick up the pieces when things go wrong and blame them when they don't or can't is wrong, they are all funded by taxpayers money and many of these taxpayers would probably be appalled at any unnecessary spending of their money on people who moved away and fucked up.
Should the taxpayers be expected to fund extravagant dinner parties for embassy staff? Would you prefer the taxpayers fund dinners or fund assistance to citizens abroad who need it?

How many times have UK or other govt officials fucked up, and never been held responsible? Why should average joe be held to a higher standard of accountability than super-rich Joe living a life of ease at the taxpayer's expense?

They are civil servants...not civil lords.
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by Anchor Moy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:45 pm

This was posted on social media today.
Image
Edited.
xxxxxxx
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Re: Brit Matthew Paul King Arrested Over Ordeal at Guesthouse in Kampot; Commits Suicide in Immigration Detention

Post by xxxxxxx » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:52 pm

that genius wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:18 pm
angkorjohn wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:51 am
To expect embassies to come and pick up the pieces when things go wrong and blame them when they don't or can't is wrong, they are all funded by taxpayers money and many of these taxpayers would probably be appalled at any unnecessary spending of their money on people who moved away and fucked up.
Should the taxpayers be expected to fund extravagant dinner parties for embassy staff? Would you prefer the taxpayers fund dinners or fund assistance to citizens abroad who need it?

How many times have UK or other govt officials fucked up, and never been held responsible? Why should average joe be held to a higher standard of accountability than super-rich Joe living a life of ease at the taxpayer's expense?

They are civil servants...not civil lords.
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