John Bingham wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:06 pm

cptrelentless wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:57 pm I can't imagine anything more dull than going to the hairdresser's with the missus so they wouldn't know. Do you think she's a bit bitter about some rich guy giving her the boot?

This. Who the hell ever went to the hairdresser's with their missus? That's even worse than going shopping.

And almost as bad as,,,,,,, Well yesterday my 16 year old girl who has no school classes this week came to PP to stay, so we walked along the riverside from the night market to Ko pich and back.
I could tell by some of the looks we we getting ,exactly what some people were thinking.

I should take her to get a hair cut at this hair salon and secretly record a video of what happens.

Ego Hair Salon should explain why they think that young Khmer women (18+ - let's call legal adults women rather than girls and avoid any confusion on this subject here or elsewhere) can't decide for themselves who they want to be with or how they should live their lives. The notion that any relationship between adults where there is a significant age difference somehow victimizes any young women who choose to be in one is paternalistic and insulting to them and demonstrates an ignorance of Cambodia's traditional cultural values related to marriage, which is surprising and a little perplexing given that the post seems to have been authored by a Cambodian.

For those who aren't aware of the traditional marriage practices in Cambodia, or who inexplicably need to be reminded of them, here's my understanding of them based on having lived there for 6 years and having spent 2+ years in a committed relationship with a Cambodian woman to whom I am now engaged and have been for a while (the wedding is overdue, admittedly, for various reasons, but it's going to happen and it'll be sooner than later, at least relative to the fact that once it does happen the results will endure for the rest of our lives presumably.)

I'll preface my analysis with the following disclaimer: I am a 41 year old American man. My girlfriend/fiancee is a 22 year old Cambodian woman. We met when she was 20 and I was 39.

The average age of marriage for Cambodian women is 20 and men 30, so there is already a presumption that there will be an age difference and that there in fact should be one, because young men are too immature and haven't accumulated the necessary resources to pay for the marriage ceremony, much less the costs of taking care of a family.

Furthermore, in Cambodia marriage for romance or love isn't viewed as an absolute ideal or the only legitimate basis for choosing a partner. Women generally want a husband who brings resources, respect, and a better life for themselves, their children, and their extended family and they don't see marrying for those reasons as a burden or obligation to be escaped from, but the realization of their own desires and goals. It is an expression of what they want for themselves and their family typically. Marriage to an older man with more money or resources is a source of pride and happiness. These aren't forced marriages. It isn't human trafficking. And if both parties to the marriage are happy in it and satisfied with the outcome there's really no reasonable basis for criticism if it's solely because you don't like the difference in their ages when they aren't bothered by it.

And do you really imagine these women are marrying much older men without the approval and consent of their parents and peers? Not a chance. Even as adults Khmer women (and men for that matter) generally live with their parents until they are married (often even afterwards) and most of the women are subject to a curfew at night. Showing proper respect for their parents is of paramount concern to them and every western man who has ever married a Khmer woman knows full well that to marry her is to marry her family and her obligations to them as well and that's largely non-negotiable.

When my girlfriend's parents first discovered that she was dating me they actually confined her to the house and wouldn't let us see each other again until I went and met with them and formally my presented myself, explained my intentions, and made the case as to why they should allow it. She was very worried that they wouldn't approve of me and she'd never see me again unless she defied them, and I honestly don't know which she'd have chosen, but I wouldn't have been too surprised if she had obeyed them and ended things with me despite her personal despair at the prospect. As I mentioned earlier: I just spent a year living with my girlfriend's family (pre-marriage, which is pretty liberal for Cambodia frankly.) They would know if their daughter was unhappy, mistreated, victimized or in need of rescue better than her stylist would, I daresay.

Obviously, that initial meeting with her parents went pretty well. My age only concerned them insofar as it made them question why I wasn't married already, with the implication being that perhaps something was wrong with me that had prevented me from finding a wife previously. I explained that in America expectations surrounding marriage are somewhat different, but that I was engaged for a few years to a woman before I came to Cambodia and it didn't work out, and we were both to blame for that, but hopefully I'd learned from the experience and wouldn't make the same mistakes now. They themselves are 11 years apart in age.

They also wanted to know about my parents and who would look after them with me living so far away. Answer: My rich older brother, no problem. They asked about what I did for work and where I went to school and the rest of it, like any parents might. By the end of my visit, my girlfriend was allowed to continue to see me as long as she was home at a reasonable hour. By the end of that year, I was living with them - mostly because it was a long drive for my girlfriend and I to see each other in really ugly traffic - and they kept on insisting that it would be far more convenient and a great idea. Oh, and it'd save me a lot of money so that we could get the wedding over with... Right? Ahem.

Continuing on ... Because Khmer women usually marry at around age 20 that means that when you're dating women in Cambodia a large percentage of the women who are single and available happen to be around that age. The older women are usually already married and older women who are single are single for a reason, either by their own inclination or due to some other circumstance or factor that prevented it from happening at any earlier age, and I'm not making any assumptions about their suitability or there being something "wrong" with them per se, but whatever factors involved with keeping them unmarried for so long before may continue to rule them out as eligible candidates for a relationship now. Whether they like it or not. Whether that's fair or not. And there may not be anything a potential suitor can do that is within their own power to overcome those obstacles, whatever they might be.

So if you're using a dating app and meeting women that way you're going to get matched with younger women for the most part whether that's an important consideration or active preference for you or not. I met my fiancee via a dating app and I had the age range of women I'd be open to dating set at 18 to 40, which was a couple of years past my own age. Other than a few online chats that didn't really go anywhere all of the women that I met were under the age of 25. Had I set my age preferences at 30-40 I'm not sure I'd have gotten any dates at all. None of the young women that I chatted with or actually went out with showed any concerns about my age or showed any embarrassment about it in public or any reticence in introducing me to their family or friends. I was far more hung up on our age difference every time and concerned about how others would judge us because I'd come from a culture that finds every sort of prejudice an abomination to be stamped out and those guilty of it punished without mercy ... except for one, apparently: ageism.

Why is ageism still so much more acceptable to people than sexism and racism these days? We all grow older and we all get old and the only exception to that isn't very appealing to most people. If every man knew that one day due to the passage of time they would be a woman, or if every white person knew with total certainty that they'd be black some day, then you'd figure everyone would be less eager to put those groups at a disadvantage, knowing that they will inevitably join them and have to reap what they've been sowing unless they start weeding it out at the roots.

Anyways, it sort of boils down to this:

Does the staff at Ego Hair Salon know better than my girlfriend what she wants for herself? Do they know what's in her best interests better than her parents do? Shall we defer to the wisdom of the hair stylists on this one? I'm sure there are also people who'd describe themselves as feminists who might have much to say on this topic should they encounter my words here. Wonderful, since I'd also consider myself a feminist or at least sympathetic to feminist ideals, I'll be happy to hear you out if you've got a compelling case to make.

Or anyone else who thinks I'm in the wrong here due to supposed feminist principles: Please give careful consideration before attempting to rob my girlfriend of her personal agency or her ability to give consent as a competent adult. That doesn't seem very feminist to me. And I thought we'd all agreed to condemn colonialism as a historic wrong and we'd disavowed all modern echoes of it, right? Isn't that part of that whole intersectional thing that millenials are so keen on? I've gotta say that aggressively trying to replace her existing cultural beliefs with your own because you've deemed yours superior to theirs, whether they agree or not, just seems like the same old White Man's (or Woman's) Burden of civilization line of bullshit to me.

You should at least offer her something in compensation like free college tuition at your own alma mater. Or maybe help her find a younger husband with better prospects than me, an upgrade of sorts, before you vocalize your support for attitudes, opinions, or practices that might force her to live a life of increased poverty, fewer opportunities for education, less career options if a career is even an option at all, and all around harder circumstances for her and everyone she loves, all to satisfy some moralizing stranger's sense of propriety. Or that's what a person might do if they really gave a shit about the women whose lives they wanted to control and weren't just trying to score rhetorical points or advance a political agenda rather than help anyone aside from themselves.

In closing, if anyone from the Ego Hair Salon would like to attend the wedding as our guests, I'll send out an invitation and if nothing can convince you to reconsider your opinions on this subject you can have the deep satisfaction of expressing your disapproval for our relationship to us in person. Don't be too disappointed if you're condemnations are met with laughter instead of tears.

PS: I don't know for certain if the salon's owners are Khmer or foreigners, and while my explanations of Cambodian culture should not be necessary, one imagines, if they are Khmer, and they are free to disagree with me either way, I believe it still serves a purpose to say all of this because it gives an analysis of the situation from the perspective of the "grandpas" (does 41 qualify?) whom they show such disdain for, whether they will ever read this or not. These older men are not acting out of evil intent or to take advantage of anyone typically and I hope this helps to illustrate that. And if not, well, it's not like I've ever needed a good reason for giving my opinion at great length previously, so whatever I guess.

BRAVO!

Well said, Ned the Red!

Always enjoy your posts

nicely put N.E.D

tl;dr
But "Shall we defer to the wisdom of the hair stylists on this one?"
lol

...and what of a young Khmer lass of 22 marrying a shiftless 40+ year old barang meth-head who fancies himself a rocknrolla and trashes his rented apartment?

fatuousdrivel wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:55 pm Maybe some rich guy gave her crabs.

I gave my girlfriend crabs a few days ago. We ate at Oyster house and they were quite tasty. Then I think someone pickpocketed me and I lost 200usd. Now I will be very crabby for the rest of the month

michael.stewart1 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:12 pm

fatuousdrivel wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:55 pm Maybe some rich guy gave her crabs.

I gave my girlfriend crabs a few days ago. We ate at Oyster house and they were quite tasty. Then I think someone pickpocketed me and I lost 200usd. Now I will be very crabby for the rest of the month

But do you also need a haircut ?