SECOND culture shock?

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Beerinthemorning
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by Beerinthemorning » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:31 pm

Jamie_Lambo wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:47 pm
yeah remember reading it here as well i think,

i think the second culture shock was intended to mean like youve become integrated here, so much so, that you start having a second culture shock when trying to mingle with other westerners who arent so integrated and it in a sense alienates you from these people, i think its the similar reasons as to why Expats, especially long term expats, hate tourists and backpackers and always try to steer clear of them, ive seen the change in myself regarding this
Yes once you start working in KoW you step up one level into the expat hierarchy.

Myself as an individual do not fit into any such hierarchy as i have apparently never stepped foot, worked or lived in KoW to impress the elder expats who have been here in KoW since 1000200 BC.
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by Jamie_Lambo » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:35 pm

Beerinthemorning wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:31 pm
Jamie_Lambo wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:47 pm
yeah remember reading it here as well i think,

i think the second culture shock was intended to mean like youve become integrated here, so much so, that you start having a second culture shock when trying to mingle with other westerners who arent so integrated and it in a sense alienates you from these people, i think its the similar reasons as to why Expats, especially long term expats, hate tourists and backpackers and always try to steer clear of them, ive seen the change in myself regarding this
Yes once you start working in KoW you step up one level into the expat hierarchy.

Myself as an individual do not fit into any such hierarchy as i have apparently never stepped foot, worked or lived in KoW to impress the elder expats who have been here in KoW since 1000200 BC.
haha i did some barwork there for a while in SHV, enjoyed it at the time, couldnt think of anything worse now though, not so much the job itself but the crowd/scene id have to interact with
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Arget
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by Arget » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 pm

I worked around Australia for a few months at a time ( about 6 months collectively per year) and found assimilating into home with family a bit difficult as they had developed their own way of doing things without me.
After that I was sent to PNG for 4 months and after living in that "unsettled" environment with the many a varied scenes of violence and violence against women my return home was even more difficult as i could not explain what i had experienced and seen. Meanwhile they all had moved on that bit more.
I was later sent to South Africa ( I know I got all the good ones) and experienced much greater differences their . The missus and one of the twins came over for a couple of weeks and so when I went home they could at least relate to some of what I talked about but the others where not near the same page.
The next year I was sent back again to SA and this was a bit more diverse in the experience I had. Life threatening activities and a couple of incidents with rogue police in Jo'burg could not be related to family.
As I had been coming to KoW for a few years around and after this time I had lost my preference for collecting material things and was at odds with family who wanted more than one tv in the house and who eventually bought their own ( had 5 kids at home and 4 Tvs (???)
After being on Manus and Nauru I decided to retire to Cambodia and my transition was easy as I did know the country and my mate lived here so no big deal.
Going back to Aus is the culture shock now with prices, eating processed foods and overeating . Crossing roads is different as I got warned for J walking. (ffs)
I had Maccas and a flat white on arrival and had the shits for 24 hours.

so yes it can be a culture shock moving and living in a different environment but I found returning to the west more difficult to assimilate back into.
ok that's my 2 bobs worth =@ =@
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by taabarang » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:41 pm

StroppyChops wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:15 pm
timmydownawell wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:05 pm
I didn't get culture shock moving from NZ to AU (understandable, all much of a muchness there)...
Yeah, that's like moving from Kampong Cham to the city. :D
That's sticker shock, not culture shock.
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by Freightdog » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:58 pm

It's a funny thing, this culture shock business.

Due to work, I've lived in a fair variety of places- Scotland, twice, with two different companies. Kazakhstan, Canada, Bangladesh, Switzerland. That accounts for the last fifteen years, for places that I've spent significant time, with shorter stints in the Middle East and Malaya. I grew up mixing time between Ireland (RoI) and England, and I've been to a reasonable amount of other places for shorter periods on vacations.

I always expected a bigger impact in going to Asia, but I found the greatest problems were closer to home. Scotland was a place I never quite managed to fit in, despite the larger balance of my friends being there. On a day to day basis, it irritated the hell out of me in ways that Bangladesh never did. I do know plenty of colleagues who had the opposite reaction, though.
For whatever reason, I manage to slot in easily into Asia. I felt more at home in Dhaka (until the family side of things got in the way) than I did in the UK.

One thing that I frequently find difficult, is the attitudes of ostensibly educated and intelligent 'westerners' who somehow manage to be in conflict with Asia from the moment they step foot there. I suspect they would have a similar difficulty settling in to most places that are culturally very different from 'home'.
The biggest problem for me on many occasions, was returning to the UK and having to accept things that should be better, but aren't.

I wonder if part of it was that growing up, we frequently relocated. The effects on my younger brother being negligible as he was too young to notice. He easily falls into the category of being in conflict with new places.

Personally, I think it's in our make-up. Do we go somewhere new with an open mind, inquisitive, even a sense of wonder, or a sense of excess caution? I tend to get stuck in straight away, mixing with local culture and people. My first visit to Cambodia didn't quite go to plan for various reasons, but while in PP, I did note with some amusement that the very same people who stood out like sore thumbs in their first few days were always seen in small groups of expats, in bars and restaurants dominated by expats, where hamburgers or KFC style offerings are the menu of choice. I view that as opportunities lost.
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by violet » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:58 pm

Arget...warned for jaywalking. I was fined first time... didn't even know it was an offence. It was a lot. I don't remember how much now.
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that genius
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by that genius » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:15 pm

I don't think I could stand a week in suburbia in the west..empty streets and CBDs on weekends, nanny-state rules

Je suis Khmerized, not totally happy about it, but undeniable
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by StroppyChops » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:15 pm

Freightdog wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:58 pm
It's a funny thing, this culture shock business.

Due to work, I've lived in a fair variety of places- Scotland, twice, with two different companies. Kazakhstan, Canada, Bangladesh, Switzerland. That accounts for the last fifteen years, for places that I've spent significant time, with shorter stints in the Middle East and Malaya. I grew up mixing time between Ireland (RoI) and England, and I've been to a reasonable amount of other places for shorter periods on vacations.

I always expected a bigger impact in going to Asia, but I found the greatest problems were closer to home. Scotland was a place I never quite managed to fit in, despite the larger balance of my friends being there. On a day to day basis, it irritated the hell out of me in ways that Bangladesh never did. I do know plenty of colleagues who had the opposite reaction, though.
For whatever reason, I manage to slot in easily into Asia. I felt more at home in Dhaka (until the family side of things got in the way) than I did in the UK.

One thing that I frequently find difficult, is the attitudes of ostensibly educated and intelligent 'westerners' who somehow manage to be in conflict with Asia from the moment they step foot there. I suspect they would have a similar difficulty settling in to most places that are culturally very different from 'home'.
The biggest problem for me on many occasions, was returning to the UK and having to accept things that should be better, but aren't.

I wonder if part of it was that growing up, we frequently relocated. The effects on my younger brother being negligible as he was too young to notice. He easily falls into the category of being in conflict with new places.

Personally, I think it's in our make-up. Do we go somewhere new with an open mind, inquisitive, even a sense of wonder, or a sense of excess caution? I tend to get stuck in straight away, mixing with local culture and people. My first visit to Cambodia didn't quite go to plan for various reasons, but while in PP, I did note with some amusement that the very same people who stood out like sore thumbs in their first few days were always seen in small groups of expats, in bars and restaurants dominated by expats, where hamburgers or KFC style offerings are the menu of choice. I view that as opportunities lost.
You raise a couple of interesting (to me) points.

Do we struggle with immersing ourselves in cultures closer to our own, but not yet the same, or with cultures that are more foreign, in which we expect everything to be different. Is this affected by childhood experience, or just predetermined given our makeup? I know that many English-speaking (sort of, eh Punchy?) countries like Scotland are not forgiving of other English speakers coming into their country - or is this just a stereotype? I know we Australians are genetically disposed to constantly remind Kiwis that they're our dumb kid brothers, no matter how much we love them and would fight for/with them. Question to kiwis - is this truly irritating, or just taken as good banter?

Totally agree with your attitude toward so-called 'intelligent' or educated westerners that struggle from the moment they get here, and feel the need to constantly compare here to home. In faith-based aid work we constantly use the concept that there are four main types of poverty, and they're all relational. Your relationship with things (have you got what you need? Are you too focused on acquisitions?), your relationship with yourself (what's your sense of self, and sense of agency?), your relationship with family and community, and your relationship with god/gods in whatever form you see them, or not. What I see is that the more affluent the westerner, the more often they see poverty in terms of owning things, yet they have zero or negative relationship with themselves, their families, their communities, and money is their god. This is NOT the case with all the westerners I have contact with, some of the greatest humanitarians I know, and some are more compassionate than others. I digress. Can't stand those that arrive and start criticising and comparing, as though they're the judge of all things.

Your initial view of westerners huddling in expat groups is now what I see in the coffee strips, hiding behind their meProducts with earbuds, carrying on loud Facetime or Skype conversations with persons elsewhere, as a means of denial to what exists just outside the window, where the a/c doesn't reach. I can't for the life of me understand those who come here as white saviours (or any other shade) that feel the need for several $5 coffees a day, when one of those coffees would feed a family in need. I know that's judgey, I don't care much for those who seek to take offense at such statements.

Totally agree with you - opportunity lost.

In case anyone's wondering, there's no agenda with this thread, I'm just free-thinking and verbalising.
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
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that genius
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by that genius » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:21 pm

StroppyChops wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:15 pm
In case anyone's wondering, there's no agenda with this thread, I'm just free-thinking and verbalising.
Strictly speaking, if you're posting, you're not really verbalising.

I was wandering but 40 years in the desert cured me of that.
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Re: SECOND culture shock?

Post by StroppyChops » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:26 pm

Arget wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 pm
I worked around Australia for a few months at a time ( about 6 months collectively per year) and found assimilating into home with family a bit difficult as they had developed their own way of doing things without me.
After that I was sent to PNG for 4 months and after living in that "unsettled" environment with the many a varied scenes of violence and violence against women my return home was even more difficult as i could not explain what i had experienced and seen. Meanwhile they all had moved on that bit more.
I was later sent to South Africa ( I know I got all the good ones) and experienced much greater differences their . The missus and one of the twins came over for a couple of weeks and so when I went home they could at least relate to some of what I talked about but the others where not near the same page.
The next year I was sent back again to SA and this was a bit more diverse in the experience I had. Life threatening activities and a couple of incidents with rogue police in Jo'burg could not be related to family.
As I had been coming to KoW for a few years around and after this time I had lost my preference for collecting material things and was at odds with family who wanted more than one tv in the house and who eventually bought their own ( had 5 kids at home and 4 Tvs (???)
After being on Manus and Nauru I decided to retire to Cambodia and my transition was easy as I did know the country and my mate lived here so no big deal.
Going back to Aus is the culture shock now with prices, eating processed foods and overeating . Crossing roads is different as I got warned for J walking. (ffs)
I had Maccas and a flat white on arrival and had the shits for 24 hours.

so yes it can be a culture shock moving and living in a different environment but I found returning to the west more difficult to assimilate back into.
ok that's my 2 bobs worth =@ =@
Mrs S and I lived in Karratha, and were very familiar with the same-same story from men on the 20 on 10 off swings (or whatever shift variations were in at any given time) - they were strangers and felt like an in-the-way nuisance when they went home as they interrupted the daily flow. Many also developed way to high expectations of their wives in the kitchen, as they'd gotten used to having a wide variety of good food laid on by the catering companies that service the mining industry. When the mining camps were first established the big employers like Rio worked closely with FIFO families to try and mitigate some of the damage FIFO does, but recently publicly admitted via the ABC that they prefer marriages and families to break down, as it gives them more focused (more angry?) workers.

Given your movements - mining sector, security or military?

We had close friends from SA, I believe from Joburg, who moved to escape the senseless violence. The father of the unit couldn't transition as he had the pale male complex and believed to his core that he was superior to all other men around him, and the kids all had to be high achievers. Lovely, respectful kids though. The eldest was homeschooled until upper high school, and got the crap beaten out of him regularly because of his saffer attitude. Love the kid, but he deserved what he got - sadly he attempted suicide as a result of not being able to acclimate.

Any time I'm back in Oz I get a feed of KFC on the way from the airport - and then remember how much I don't like it, and how sick it makes me. You'd think I'd learn, but that first mouthful of grease and batter ... ! I haven't been back to Oz for a couple of years and am feeling the separation from kids and grandkid (and aging mother) but I have to be honest, I struggle greatly with being back in Oz. Love my mother country with a passion, don't like what it's become.
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
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