You should have bought bitcoin.

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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by kiwiincambodia » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:04 pm

Don’t forget dogecoin

http://dogecoin.com/

Image
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by doktor_d » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 pm

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:35 pm
doktor_d wrote:...
You can get that in the stock market. People have been doing it for ages, myself included. You can also easily leverage your account, hedge yourself with options, short the stocks.... Why crypto?! It's fine that you like them, but the only noobs I see are people jumping on the crypto bandwagon thinking they can get rich fast by speculating when they know nothing about trading. It's almost like a sect now and there are like 1000 of them.
Can you get 800-35000% gains in a year on the stock market? I don't really know a lot about stocks tbh but from what I hear a really good year would give you around 30-50% on the stock market. That's chump change compared to crypto:

Image

Even an amateur could double or triple his money in crypto by just reading up a bit on it and following the news. No TA or trading experience needed. And you can get in with as little as a dollar or as much as you'd like. (An amateur could lose his money easily as well of course).

Crypto is full of insider trading, pump and dumps, scams, ponzi schemes and anything else you can think of. It's the wild west! Completely unregulated and largely unregulateable.. Tons of noobs are streaming into crypto looking to get rich quick and many are exiting just as fast after a few bad experiences, leaving all their money on the table for others to scoop up. Like in this massive correction we just went through..

Plenty of people with stock market experience are entering the crypto market as well. As are "big money". What's going on in crypto right now is a once in a lifetime opportunity imo. It's kind of like the gold rush of the 1850s. And I love it!

But I'm not just in it for the money.. (though that is a big part of it) I honestly believe it is the future. Bitcoin/crypto currency/digital money in some form or another. And I love that the banks fear it. That governments fear it. Politicians fear it. They want to forbid it, regulate it, shut it down.. they want to control it. They can't! It's decentralized.

I love that I can, if I choose to, mine crypto through a vpn anonymously.. have it transferred to my wallet on my phone that was bought used - anonymously.. is rooted, runs a firewall and a vpn - for maximum privacy.. and can then be moved onto an anonymous exchange where I can trade with it before I send it back to the wallet and withdraw it anonymously on a bitcoin/litecoin atm in any of the thousands of locations available worldwide.

I can buy things online anonymously. Like a vpn service or a protonmail account. I can use MY money exactly how I want without asking permisson from anyone. The government can't freeze my bitcoin account. They can't block it so I can't donate to someone they don't like as they did with wikileaks f.ex. They can't stop you from bringing tens of thousands of dollars across borders if that's your thing. They can't tax you to death if you wont let them. You get to be the boss of your money. And they HATE that. They can't get their greasy, sweaty, greedy, fat little fingers on your money without your consent.

I'm for freedom of choice. You get that with crypto. I don't like being told what to do by my government. Especially when I'm not doing anything illegal. Maybe part of it is just that. Having mostly grown up in a country run by nanny state fascists who tell you how to live your life, and tax to death or forbid anything that is enjoyable or fun I automatically get attracted to things like crypto. To places like Cambodia.. Is that so strange?

How about you? Why don't you like it?
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by doktor_d » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:02 pm

kiwiincambodia wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:04 pm
Don’t forget dogecoin

http://dogecoin.com/

Image
I love dogecoin. Doges super quick transfers and super low transaction fees give most other crypto a run for their money. And it's a meme coin! :D
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by Abc123 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:53 pm

doktor_d wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 pm
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:35 pm
doktor_d wrote:...
You can get that in the stock market. People have been doing it for ages, myself included. You can also easily leverage your account, hedge yourself with options, short the stocks.... Why crypto?! It's fine that you like them, but the only noobs I see are people jumping on the crypto bandwagon thinking they can get rich fast by speculating when they know nothing about trading. It's almost like a sect now and there are like 1000 of them.
Can you get 800-35000% gains in a year on the stock market? I don't really know a lot about stocks tbh but from what I hear a really good year would give you around 30-50% on the stock market. That's chump change compared to crypto:

Image

Even an amateur could double or triple his money in crypto by just reading up a bit on it and following the news. No TA or trading experience needed. And you can get in with as little as a dollar or as much as you'd like. (An amateur could lose his money easily as well of course).

Crypto is full of insider trading, pump and dumps, scams, ponzi schemes and anything else you can think of. It's the wild west! Completely unregulated and largely unregulateable.. Tons of noobs are streaming into crypto looking to get rich quick and many are exiting just as fast after a few bad experiences, leaving all their money on the table for others to scoop up. Like in this massive correction we just went through..

Plenty of people with stock market experience are entering the crypto market as well. As are "big money". What's going on in crypto right now is a once in a lifetime opportunity imo. It's kind of like the gold rush of the 1850s. And I love it!

But I'm not just in it for the money.. (though that is a big part of it) I honestly believe it is the future. Bitcoin/crypto currency/digital money in some form or another. And I love that the banks fear it. That governments fear it. Politicians fear it. They want to forbid it, regulate it, shut it down.. they want to control it. They can't! It's decentralized.

I love that I can, if I choose to, mine crypto through a vpn anonymously.. have it transferred to my wallet on my phone that was bought used - anonymously.. is rooted, runs a firewall and a vpn - for maximum privacy.. and can then be moved onto an anonymous exchange where I can trade with it before I send it back to the wallet and withdraw it anonymously on a bitcoin/litecoin atm in any of the thousands of locations available worldwide.

I can buy things online anonymously. Like a vpn service or a protonmail account. I can use MY money exactly how I want without asking permisson from anyone. The government can't freeze my bitcoin account. They can't block it so I can't donate to someone they don't like as they did with wikileaks f.ex. They can't stop you from bringing tens of thousands of dollars across borders if that's your thing. They can't tax you to death if you wont let them. You get to be the boss of your money. And they HATE that. They can't get their greasy, sweaty, greedy, fat little fingers on your money without your consent.

I'm for freedom of choice. You get that with crypto. I don't like being told what to do by my government. Especially when I'm not doing anything illegal. Maybe part of it is just that. Having mostly grown up in a country run by nanny state fascists who tell you how to live your life, and tax to death or forbid anything that is enjoyable or fun I automatically get attracted to things like crypto. To places like Cambodia.. Is that so strange?

How about you? Why don't you like it?
Spot on. The traditional money markets watchng all that cash slipping through their hands must be givng them huge nightmares.
They wouldn't regulate or punish them, so they forced people to find another way.
The banks and governments created Bitcoin, just as surely as 440 created CEO.
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by Duncan » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:55 pm

doktor_d wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 pm
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:35 pm
doktor_d wrote:...
You can get that in the stock market. People have been doing it for ages, myself included. You can also easily leverage your account, hedge yourself with options, short the stocks.... Why crypto?! It's fine that you like them, but the only noobs I see are people jumping on the crypto bandwagon thinking they can get rich fast by speculating when they know nothing about trading. It's almost like a sect now and there are like 1000 of them.
Can you get 800-35000% gains in a year on the stock market? I don't really know a lot about stocks tbh but from what I hear a really good year would give you around 30-50% on the stock market. That's chump change compared to crypto:

Image

Even an amateur could double or triple his money in crypto by just reading up a bit on it and following the news. No TA or trading experience needed. And you can get in with as little as a dollar or as much as you'd like. (An amateur could lose his money easily as well of course).

Crypto is full of insider trading, pump and dumps, scams, ponzi schemes and anything else you can think of. It's the wild west! Completely unregulated and largely unregulateable.. Tons of noobs are streaming into crypto looking to get rich quick and many are exiting just as fast after a few bad experiences, leaving all their money on the table for others to scoop up. Like in this massive correction we just went through..

Plenty of people with stock market experience are entering the crypto market as well. As are "big money". What's going on in crypto right now is a once in a lifetime opportunity imo. It's kind of like the gold rush of the 1850s. And I love it!

But I'm not just in it for the money.. (though that is a big part of it) I honestly believe it is the future. Bitcoin/crypto currency/digital money in some form or another. And I love that the banks fear it. That governments fear it. Politicians fear it. They want to forbid it, regulate it, shut it down.. they want to control it. They can't! It's decentralized.

I love that I can, if I choose to, mine crypto through a vpn anonymously.. have it transferred to my wallet on my phone that was bought used - anonymously.. is rooted, runs a firewall and a vpn - for maximum privacy.. and can then be moved onto an anonymous exchange where I can trade with it before I send it back to the wallet and withdraw it anonymously on a bitcoin/litecoin atm in any of the thousands of locations available worldwide.

I can buy things online anonymously. Like a vpn service or a protonmail account. I can use MY money exactly how I want without asking permisson from anyone. The government can't freeze my bitcoin account. They can't block it so I can't donate to someone they don't like as they did with wikileaks f.ex. They can't stop you from bringing tens of thousands of dollars across borders if that's your thing. They can't tax you to death if you wont let them. You get to be the boss of your money. And they HATE that. They can't get their greasy, sweaty, greedy, fat little fingers on your money without your consent.

I'm for freedom of choice. You get that with crypto. I don't like being told what to do by my government. Especially when I'm not doing anything illegal. Maybe part of it is just that. Having mostly grown up in a country run by nanny state fascists who tell you how to live your life, and tax to death or forbid anything that is enjoyable or fun I automatically get attracted to things like crypto. To places like Cambodia.. Is that so strange?

How about you? Why don't you like it?



Your right, your right, your so god damn right, that's why I think crypto currencies should be banned. If everyone did it there would be no-one paying taxes and the oz government would have no money to pay me my old age pension .
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by pczz » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:28 pm

Duncan wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:55 pm



Your right, your right, your so god damn right, that's why I think crypto currencies should be banned. If everyone did it there would be no-one paying taxes and the oz government would have no money to pay me my old age pension .
I thought all the Aussies were already here dodging taxes and money laundering through their bars. :stir:
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:55 pm

doktor_d wrote: Can you get 800-35000% gains in a year on the stock market? I don't really know a lot about stocks tbh but from what I hear a really good year would give you around 30-50% on the stock market. That's chump change compared to crypto:
Image
Even an amateur could double or triple his money in crypto by just reading up a bit on it and following the news. No TA or trading experience needed. And you can get in with as little as a dollar or as much as you'd like. (An amateur could lose his money easily as well of course).
That's the thing. The "woulda-coulda" mentality is false. No real investor would have ridden the whole wave uninterrupted unless they're ultra long-termers. Sure, a few people have held Bitcoin from the beginning, just as a few have had Google stock from the beginning, but the reality is that most (smart) people would have pulled out and back in repeatedly throughout the period, taking both gains and losses. I traded venture exchanges for a while, and the risk/reward is probably similar to crypto. Pennystocks are volatile but can get you a nice return. Also, have you ever heard of options or shorting stocks? Great way to make money while using very little of your own money. You can make money on stocks as they go up or down. I think shorting might become available for crypto, but at the moment I think such options are limited (I honestly don't know). Of course, I need to declare capital gains tax for stocks, but that's still taxed at a tiny rate compared to income tax.



doktor_d wrote:Crypto is full of insider trading, pump and dumps, scams, ponzi schemes and anything else you can think of. It's the wild west! Completely unregulated and largely unregulateable.. Tons of noobs are streaming into crypto looking to get rich quick and many are exiting just as fast after a few bad experiences, leaving all their money on the table for others to scoop up. Like in this massive correction we just went through..

Plenty of people with stock market experience are entering the crypto market as well. As are "big money". What's going on in crypto right now is a once in a lifetime opportunity imo. It's kind of like the gold rush of the 1850s. And I love it!
You're not selling it well. Making me think of that "Bitconeeeeeeect" guy... :P

doktor_d wrote:But I'm not just in it for the money.. (though that is a big part of it) I honestly believe it is the future. Bitcoin/crypto currency/digital money in some form or another. And I love that the banks fear it. That governments fear it. Politicians fear it. They want to forbid it, regulate it, shut it down.. they want to control it. They can't! It's decentralized.
I love that I can, if I choose to, mine crypto through a vpn anonymously.. have it transferred to my wallet on my phone that was bought used - anonymously.. is rooted, runs a firewall and a vpn - for maximum privacy.. and can then be moved onto an anonymous exchange where I can trade with it before I send it back to the wallet and withdraw it anonymously on a bitcoin/litecoin atm in any of the thousands of locations available worldwide.
I can buy things online anonymously. Like a vpn service or a protonmail account. I can use MY money exactly how I want without asking permisson from anyone. The government can't freeze my bitcoin account. They can't block it so I can't donate to someone they don't like as they did with wikileaks f.ex. They can't stop you from bringing tens of thousands of dollars across borders if that's your thing. They can't tax you to death if you wont let them. You get to be the boss of your money. And they HATE that. They can't get their greasy, sweaty, greedy, fat little fingers on your money without your consent.
I'm for freedom of choice. You get that with crypto. I don't like being told what to do by my government. Especially when I'm not doing anything illegal. Maybe part of it is just that. Having mostly grown up in a country run by nanny state fascists who tell you how to live your life, and tax to death or forbid anything that is enjoyable or fun I automatically get attracted to things like crypto. To places like Cambodia.. Is that so strange?

How about you? Why don't you like it?
That's exactly why I said I'm not against it in my previous post. I like the fact that it's not regulated by central banks and so on. I love that aspect of it. However, it's also not backed by anything (gold), so in theory isn't worth much more than fiat. My main point was this: they're not real currencies in the real sense of the word. For something to be called a currency, imo you should be able to buy stuff from a merchant with it. So far that's only possible to a limited extent. Secondly, to be a currency, the merchant should keep the coins. However, as far as I know, the vast majority of vendors immediately convert crypto to fiat currency, defeating the whole purpose. They know it's too risky and volatile, so they want "out" as soon as they've gotten paid. The fact remains: you can buy something with crypto one day, but the next it'll either be way more expensive or way cheaper to buy. That makes no sense in terms of a proper currency. Will a few of them establish themselves in the future as real alternatives to fiat? Maybe... Hopefully... Still, I'm not holding my breath. Again, I didn't say I don't like crypto. Investment comes in all shapes and sizes, it's just that I can't be bothered with crypto. I traded stocks actively for over a decade and stopped shorty after coming here. Mostly it was because the time difference. Made it difficult to be effective, which ended up being stressful. More importantly, I ended up liking not having to worry about the next swing trade I had to make and so on. I like being totally disconnected from it all. Trading is certainly exciting and makes you feel alive, but it's also stressful as you really want to be "on" all the time. You need to constantly be reading up on stuff, adjusting new stops and limits and so on. I have no intention of doing that again in an active manner. The way I see many people now obsessed about it all only reinforces my belief. A lot of my money is now invested in other ventures which suit me well, so whatever floats your boat I say! :thumb:
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by doktor_d » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:33 am

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:55 pm
doktor_d wrote: ...
That's the thing. The "woulda-coulda" mentality is false. No real investor would have ridden the whole wave uninterrupted unless they're ultra long-termers. Sure, a few people have held Bitcoin from the beginning, just as a few have had Google stock from the beginning, but the reality is that most (smart) people would have pulled out and back in repeatedly throughout the period, taking both gains and losses.


"No real investor woulda".. this isn't the stock market. You can't apply stock market logic to crypto. Few if any of the guys that have been into crypto since the beginning are your typical investor. They are mostly all extreme believers of the product. Of the change Bitcoin can bring long term. 

Google HODL. It's a thing. People actually just buy and hold. It's often the same with "newer" crypto currencies as Litecoin and Ethereum too. People get in very early and just hold no matter what. Even when it crashes..

I have held bitcoin since it was around $800. And apart for skimming a bit off the top now and then and other times putting gains back in, I have held most of that bitcoin all along. Even through this january crash. Because I truly believe in it. I "know" it will go up again. It always does. And when it does it goes on another parabolic run.

Image

And of course there are "real investors" in crypto who do not simply hodl. And they are raking in ridiculous gains. The volatility can be difficult to believe for someone new to crypto. It's not unusual for coins to go up or down 40-80% in a day. On obscure exchanges like cryptopia you can easily see 1000% in a day on some shitcoins.
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:I traded venture exchanges for a while, and the risk/reward is probably similar to crypto. Pennystocks are volatile but can get you a nice return. Also, have you ever heard of options or shorting stocks? Great way to make money while using very little of your own money. You can make money on stocks as they go up or down. I think shorting might become available for crypto, but at the moment I think such options are limited (I honestly don't know). Of course, I need to declare capital gains tax for stocks, but that's still taxed at a tiny rate compared to income tax.
You can short Bitcoin. CBOE and CME are doing bitcoin futures trading. You can trade with leverage on CEX (with 100x leverage on BITMEX). Shitcoins are the pennystocks of crypto but with much much much larger returns.

As for taxes/capital gains (stocks).. In the US I think you typically pay about 25-35%. Isn't that about the same or slightly less than average income tax? I'm sure this differs from country to country as it will with crypto taxing. I think one reason a lot of peole aren't cashing out their crypto is that some countries have ridiculous tax rules when it comes to crypto. Like trying to scare people away from crypto by regarding it as property. So it will be almost impossible to use as a currency. This will, I believe, change over time. But it will make it difficult to see widespread/mainstream use in the near future.

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:
doktor_d wrote:Crypto is full of insider trading... etc
You're not selling it well. Making me think of that "Bitconeeeeeeect" guy... :P

I'm not trying to sell it. I think people who are dependant on their governments to hold their hand at all times and wouldn't dare to even think to step out of line or leave the "safe" areas designated by their beloved nanny state government should stay as far away from crypto as possible. They WILL get rekt.
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:
doktor_d wrote:...
How about you? Why don't you like it?...
That's exactly why I said I'm not against it in my previous post. I like the fact that it's not regulated by central banks and so on. I love that aspect of it. However, it's also not backed by anything (gold), so in theory isn't worth much more than fiat.
Which also would mean that it is worth as much as fiat? Unlike fiat bitcoin is deflationary. There's a fixed amount of 21.000.000 bitcoin to ever be mined.. Unlike paper money. Which seem to be printed at an alarmingly escalating rate year by year. What could possibly go wrong?

Image

Image
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:My main point was this: they're not real currencies in the real sense of the word. For something to be called a currency, imo you should be able to buy stuff from a merchant with it. So far that's only possible to a limited extent. Secondly, to be a currency, the merchant should keep the coins. However, as far as I know, the vast majority of vendors immediately convert crypto to fiat currency, defeating the whole purpose. They know it's too risky and volatile, so they want "out" as soon as they've gotten paid. The fact remains: you can buy something with crypto one day, but the next it'll either be way more expensive or way cheaper to buy. That makes no sense in terms of a proper currency. Will a few of them establish themselves in the future as real alternatives to fiat? Maybe... Hopefully... Still, I'm not holding my breath. Again, I didn't say I don't like crypto. Investment comes in all shapes and sizes, it's just that I can't be bothered with crypto. I traded stocks actively for over a decade and stopped shorty after coming here. Mostly it was because the time difference. Made it difficult to be effective, which ended up being stressful. More importantly, I ended up liking not having to worry about the next swing trade I had to make and so on. I like being totally disconnected from it all. Trading is certainly exciting and makes you feel alive, but it's also stressful as you really want to be "on" all the time. You need to constantly be reading up on stuff, adjusting new stops and limits and so on. I have no intention of doing that again in an active manner. The way I see many people now obsessed about it all only reinforces my belief. A lot of my money is now invested in other ventures which suit me well, so whatever floats your boat I say! :thumb:

Sure. I get your point. And I don't completely disagree. We're just coming at it from two very different places. I mean, you can by lots of things with bitcoin. Luxury cars, watches, jewelry, property, yachts, tech, airline tickets, book hotel rooms, pay your taxes in some countries.. if you are actively seeking to pay with crypto, you'll find plenty of places to do so. There are also cafes, restaurants and bars worldwide that accept crypto. There's even one in Phnom Penh.

DASH is very popular in South America and bitcoin is huge in some African countries. But sure. Crypto is a long ways away from being used as a currency. Partly because it's still in the adoption phase and it's still much to volatile to be used by normies on a daily basis. And partly because governments, banks, VISA, paypal, Western Union and everyone else who has anything and everything to lose by crypto succeding are desperately trying to stop it with any and every means they have from ever being able to get any kind of mainstream adoption. They are desperately trying to kill it.

But again.. I'm not trying to get anyone into crypto. Like you said.. whatever floats your boat. Some people have their money in the bank with a negative interest (inflation taken into account). :D

I personally do believe crypto's the future though. And considering how the banks have been doing things.. I'd rather have my money anywhere else than in a bank. Gold, property, crypto, cash.. anything has to be better than in the bank IMO :beer3:
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by Kammekor » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:54 am

doktor_d wrote: I have held bitcoin since it was around $800. And apart for skimming a bit off the top now and then and other times putting gains back in, I have held most of that bitcoin all along. Even through this january crash. Because I truly believe in it. I "know" it will go up again. It always does. And when it does it goes on another parabolic run.
Your reasoning might work for you, but is of course missing any logic. Loads of people stepped in the coins in November and December, buying BitCoin at 15k plus, looking at serious losses now. Nothing they can do except sit it out and hope for the best. Believing the only way is up is typical for a a bubble. Nothing will only go up forever.

The technology behind the bitcoin is already so outdated, and newer iterations offer better technology, the value of the bitcoin will go to (nearly) zero in the end, and I believe the end is not that far from now.

But hey, enjoy the ride and cash out at the right moment. You might make 800% percent in 2018, but you will never lose 800% unless you buy more.
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Re: You should have bought bitcoin.

Post by doktor_d » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:49 pm

Kammekor wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:54 am
doktor_d wrote: I have held bitcoin since it was around $800. And apart for skimming a bit off the top now and then and other times putting gains back in, I have held most of that bitcoin all along. Even through this january crash. Because I truly believe in it. I "know" it will go up again. It always does. And when it does it goes on another parabolic run.
Your reasoning might work for you, but is of course missing any logic. Loads of people stepped in the coins in November and December, buying BitCoin at 15k plus, looking at serious losses now. Nothing they can do except sit it out and hope for the best.
Aw.. should I feel sorry for them? Did I tell them to invest in November and December? Unless they sold the bottom they still have their bitcoin. I fail to see the "serious losses" tbh.

If they bought the all time high with money they couldn't afford to lose and expected to get rich in 2 months - then sold the bottom - they were stupid and got what they deserved. A valuable lesson.. Sounds like perhaps you were one of them?

(Anyone who bought in November is still up btw. BTC is now hovering around $9000)
Kammekor wrote: Believing the only way is up is typical for a a bubble. Nothing will only go up forever.
Who said it will go up forever? I said it always goes back up again (after a crash). Historically it always has. But nothing goes up forever. But I believe it has a long way to go still. DYOR. I'm not a financial advisor.
Kammekor wrote:The technology behind the bitcoin is already so outdated, and newer iterations offer better technology, the value of the bitcoin will go to (nearly) zero in the end, and I believe the end is not that far from now.
You don't seem that well informed. Google "SEGWIT" and "Lightning Network".. I personally don't think that any other crypto currency has anything that comes near the team of developers bitcoin has and I therefore do not believe there is any real competition at the moment. There are many alternatives though. I do like the privacy coins.. Like Monero and Zcash f.ex.

If you think bitcoin will go to (nearly) 0, then you probably shouldn't invest in it.
Kammekor wrote:But hey, enjoy the ride and cash out at the right moment. You might make 800% percent in 2018,
But you said it would go to (nearly) 0.. not far from now. Now I am confused.
Kammekor wrote:but you will never lose 800% unless you buy more.
I honestly don't know what that means..
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