pczz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:19 am

Sweeter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:04 am When I moved to Phnom Penh a few years back I could speak Mandarin a lot better than Khmer. One young Chinese man with a business in Cambodia told me "keep practicing your Chinese and don't bother to learn Khmer as this country will be Chinese soon."

If we look at the history, in the 1970s Saloth Sar and his lieutenants like Ieng Sary (Chinese Khmers who had in some cases travelled to China for advice and blessings) were clearing Khmer people from their own cities and removing them from their assets. And it was a bad time to be in Cambodia as a Barang of any kind. Then the expulsion and starvation of the Vietnamese under the Khmer Rouge coincided with China's invasion of Vietnam, extending China's war with Vietnam to a second front via what was at that point China's Cambodian proxy, and Vietnam responded. The "Chinese takeover" that people talk about on this forum isn't new, it is decades-old but was interrupted by Vietnam's invasion of Cambodia and stalled for a time.

The question is: If Westerners were not welcome during the last takeover, what makes us think we will be welcome during this one? The writing has been on the wall for some time. How do you feel lately if you live there? (I moved). Western ideas, language, investment, and relationships with the Khmer people are seen as impediments to China's goals, obviously. After all, their strategists are smart enough to realize that it was the removal of French protection that paved the way for Cambodia's total loss of sovereignty to regional powers in the last century. If you think Cambodia seems less enjoyable, I say don't blame your age; instead, blame the political winds.

Its a bit off topic but I feel fine. One of the things I like best in Cambodia is the people. I have not noticed any change amongst Mr and Mrs average Khmer towards barang, I don't think the Chinese will change that at street level. however the influx of too many rich barang twats who seem to want to recreate a colonial past and use Cambodia as a glorified brothel will change attitudes. These cretins treat Khmer like some sort of subspecies, assume they are ignorant and show no respect. Its as if the Chinese offer industrialization and the barang offer more girly bars

chorlton wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:30 am

pczz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:19 am

Sweeter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:04 am When I moved to Phnom Penh a few years back I could speak Mandarin a lot better than Khmer. One young Chinese man with a business in Cambodia told me "keep practicing your Chinese and don't bother to learn Khmer as this country will be Chinese soon."

If we look at the history, in the 1970s Saloth Sar and his lieutenants like Ieng Sary (Chinese Khmers who had in some cases travelled to China for advice and blessings) were clearing Khmer people from their own cities and removing them from their assets. And it was a bad time to be in Cambodia as a Barang of any kind. Then the expulsion and starvation of the Vietnamese under the Khmer Rouge coincided with China's invasion of Vietnam, extending China's war with Vietnam to a second front via what was at that point China's Cambodian proxy, and Vietnam responded. The "Chinese takeover" that people talk about on this forum isn't new, it is decades-old but was interrupted by Vietnam's invasion of Cambodia and stalled for a time.

The question is: If Westerners were not welcome during the last takeover, what makes us think we will be welcome during this one? The writing has been on the wall for some time. How do you feel lately if you live there? (I moved). Western ideas, language, investment, and relationships with the Khmer people are seen as impediments to China's goals, obviously. After all, their strategists are smart enough to realize that it was the removal of French protection that paved the way for Cambodia's total loss of sovereignty to regional powers in the last century. If you think Cambodia seems less enjoyable, I say don't blame your age; instead, blame the political winds.

Its a bit off topic but I feel fine. One of the things I like best in Cambodia is the people. I have not noticed any change amongst Mr and Mrs average Khmer towards barang, I don't think the Chinese will change that at street level. however the influx of too many rich barang twats who seem to want to recreate a colonial past and use Cambodia as a glorified brothel will change attitudes. These cretins treat Khmer like some sort of subspecies, assume they are ignorant and show no respect. Its as if the Chinese offer industrialization and the barang offer more girly bars

exactly.
how bloody hard is it to be polite yet daily I hear curt tones, barked commands & impatient raised voices repeating things with the facial expression of a petulant teenager especially ordering food. not wise to piss of the guy about to prep your food...

Sweeter wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:12 am Interesting; I see the opposite. I lived in Cambodia for a few years on and off but I spent 99 per cent of my time with locals (Khmers, Chinese-Khmers, Cham, and Vietnamese). I never saw a Westerner treating a Khmer like a slave or colonial subject, but I saw many Khmers being treated as such by fellow Asians. I have listened to Khmers tell me how their bosses even let their small children treat them like slaves. Restaurant workers often sleep on site and are charged for the food that they eat at their own restaurants, making their non-existant earnings even less while their bosses are happily buying cars and living large. The sex work industry patronized by Asians dwarfs the one visited by Barang, and the workers seem to live in a sort of bondage and seem to have no rights whatsoever vis-a-vis any Asian with even modest clout.

If anything, I think one of the many reasons Barang are regarded with suspicion and not entirely welcome is that those who regard this as their way of life are wary of the sort of Teutonic or even chivalrous ideas of the Barang and the judgemental eye that can come with them. I remember in my early days in Cambodia I was drinking with some Khmer guys and gals and one girl started vomiting. I tried to comfort her as she was sick and I put my hand on her shoulder. My Khmer guy friend said "Don't touch Khmer girls in Cambodia" and he pulled her over to his side and just started feeling her up, groping her, and I lost it on him and gave him a ration of shit about about what an asshole he was. If I could go back in time I would have just kept my mouth shut I guess. The worst thing a Barang can do in Cambodia is try to project his or her values. We're distrusted more for our moralising than anything else.

superferret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:22 am The other big change I noticed is that while a few years ago there used to be a bunch of random young girls in the nightlife who were definitely not professionals, is it just me because all I’m seeing is professional hookers everywhere and their average age seems to have increased a lot. Lots more Khmers going out, that is true.

superferret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:22 am Regarding the original topic of nightlife, since my first post I’ve been exploring Phnom Penh and Sihanoukville nightlife in depth, and while it’s not dead, I have to say it’s really changed in a bad way for foreigners who just want to party.
Both PP and S’ville I no longer have any place to go. I really hate Pontoon. Heart of Darkness has become a gay bar, Sorya mall is destroyed. Darling Darling in Naga world is a great disco, but unless you’re prepared to spend 100 dollars there, you’re a nobody so better not even step inside. Love Club on 278 is a has horrible American music and so full of people going crazy it’s impossible to even have a conversation. They closed off the balcony which was the only good part. Reggae bar seems pretty dead, the rooftop which used to have big parties is completely empty. I tried everything and it really seems like there’s nothing to just hang out and have a good time.

As for Sihanoukville, what a shock. They completely razed the entire Occheauteal beach area. That was pretty much the only place with non-girlie-bar nightlife for foreigners. The backpacker places have small parties on some nights, other nights it’s just tourists sitting around with the people they came with. Whenever I visited Otres it was just one bar with a handful of Russians or other tourists. This place is not even worth coming to anymore. It’s destroyed.

The other big change I noticed is that while a few years ago there used to be a bunch of random young girls in the nightlife who were definitely not professionals, is it just me because all I’m seeing is professional hookers everywhere and their average age seems to have increased a lot. Lots more Khmers going out, that is true.

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:58 am

superferret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:22 am The other big change I noticed is that while a few years ago there used to be a bunch of random young girls in the nightlife who were definitely not professionals, is it just me because all I’m seeing is professional hookers everywhere and their average age seems to have increased a lot. Lots more Khmers going out, that is true.

tbh if your wanting to meet local girls that arent hookers then go out to the local bars and discos,
if Pontoon, Heart, Sorya mall, Darlin Darlin are the places you go looking its no wonder youre only seeing pros,
Try Epic or Empire clubs or the new container bars that are popping up everywhere, a new club called Sound has just opened up recently too but not been there yet

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:58 am

superferret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:22 am The other big change I noticed is that while a few years ago there used to be a bunch of random young girls in the nightlife who were definitely not professionals, is it just me because all I’m seeing is professional hookers everywhere and their average age seems to have increased a lot. Lots more Khmers going out, that is true.

tbh if your wanting to meet local girls that arent hookers then go out to the local bars and discos,
if Pontoon, Heart, Sorya mall, Darlin Darlin are the places you go looking its no wonder youre only seeing pros,
Try Epic or Empire clubs or the new container bars that are popping up everywhere, a new club called Sound has just opened up recently too but not been there yet