predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

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taabarang
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by taabarang » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:44 am

shnoukieBRO wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:01 am
Someone once told me that no one lasted in Sihanouk's, the Russians didn't, neither will the Chinese..or will they?😯
I wouldn't bet against it. The govt. may dance with the bear, but it appears they have chosen to sleep with the tiger.
As my old Cajun bait seller used to say, "I opes you luck.
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by superferret » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:28 pm

shnoukieBRO wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:01 am
Someone once told me that no one lasted in Sihanouk's, the Russians didn't, neither will the Chinese..or will they?😯
I have bad news for you, the Chinese are going to last. The barangs that came here never bought any significant investment, if the US or Europe wanted to have more influence here, they should have
invested in major infrastructure, etc. They didn't, so now the Chinese (and Japanese) are doing it. They made Sihanoukville a strategic foreign investment location, and there's almost 1.4 billion of them
with mountains of money to burn, so they're not going anywhere. The only dynamic I see changing this is if the Khmers revolt against them, change the gov't to one that's Western friendlier and other
non-Asian foreign investment starts flowing into Cambodia.
This is not happening anytime soon though.
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by Sweeter » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:08 pm

superferret wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:28 pm
shnoukieBRO wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:01 am
Someone once told me that no one lasted in Sihanouk's, the Russians didn't, neither will the Chinese..or will they?😯
I have bad news for you, the Chinese are going to last. The barangs that came here never bought any significant investment, if the US or Europe wanted to have more influence here, they should have
invested in major infrastructure, etc. They didn't, so now the Chinese (and Japanese) are doing it. They made Sihanoukville a strategic foreign investment location, and there's almost 1.4 billion of them
with mountains of money to burn, so they're not going anywhere. The only dynamic I see changing this is if the Khmers revolt against them, change the gov't to one that's Western friendlier and other
non-Asian foreign investment starts flowing into Cambodia.
This is not happening anytime soon though.
True but European or US assets that followed would have been seized had they made those investments anyway. The chances of the West being a constructive partner in Cambodia died with Sirimatak. We call KPS "Sihanoukville," named for a king who semi-retired in a 40-room mansion in North Korea. The KR was all but a proxy for China. Chinese workers in KPS were well-fed and giving orders to hungry Khmers in the 70's and the KR only went aggro on the Vietnamese around the time China invaded Vietnam. Even speaking or learning English could get someone a death sentence at that time. Then the Vietnamese came in and the Khmers were still not allowed to study English. Even eating with a fork and knife like a Westerner was a sort of anti-revolutionary treachery for a time. As a consequence of the political forces that have strength in Cambodia, it has been ripe for investment from Vietnam and China, but not so much the West. Arguably even North Korea has has better prospects here than the US.
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by frank lee bent » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:14 pm

infrastructure yes. one belt one road investments are encouraged.
casinos and gambling are illegal to invest in, participate in as employees, and arguably illegal for Chinese nationals to gamble in overseas.
hotels and resorts discouraged.
it is all in the August directive from the Chinese gov that i have cited repeatedly.
so whatever we think- the Chinese gov has very clear policies.

what you are seeing now is just a mad scramble for the scraps, because future dealings will be via untrustworthy nominees.
that is how it is with organized crime- which this is, QED; via gov policy.
that is why it can easily come to an abrupt end.
all you have to do is watch the door on these places.
lots of customers coming and going?
No?
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by cptrelentless » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:41 pm

frank lee bent wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:14 pm
infrastructure yes. one belt one road investments are encouraged.
casinos and gambling are illegal to invest in, participate in as employees, and arguably illegal for Chinese nationals to gamble in overseas.
hotels and resorts discouraged.
it is all in the August directive from the Chinese gov that i have cited repeatedly.
so whatever we think- the Chinese gov has very clear policies.

what you are seeing now is just a mad scramble for the scraps, because future dealings will be via untrustworthy nominees.
that is how it is with organized crime- which this is, QED; via gov policy.
that is why it can easily come to an abrupt end.
all you have to do is watch the door on these places.
lots of customers coming and going?
No?
I was told by someone, can't remember who, but the online gambling is pretty much paying for everything, the footfall for actual customers is still very small. He was in the Jin Bao and was talking about the online workers coming downstairs to gamble in their free time, and they had wads of hundreds.
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by cptrelentless » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:43 pm

rogerrabbit wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:25 pm
Pizzalover wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:15 pm
Chinese companies had a meeting in PP. Topic was takeover of the harbor. Add to that the concession for the PP-SHV highway, takeover of airports, the already described building up of entirely owned Chinese supply lines. The gambling and tourism aspects is comparably minor with what is in the making. Concerns about sewage, energy etc. wont matter too much unless they can make money from it. Local biz guy told me that the Chinese garbage company now demands four times the price Citri had asked for.
I don't think they have been talking anything about taking over the harbour? Chinese just want to expand it. Which makes sense as it's not far from full capacity. And isn't the max fee for trash collection now $10 which doesn't sound big at all for business. They should be paying more then private residences anyways.
The harbour under discussion now for development by the Chinese is Stung Hav, not the main port. Next big property bubble as the land is still quite cheap. Grab some parcels of land and flip them whilst you still can.
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by superferret » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:29 am

frank lee bent wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:14 pm
infrastructure yes. one belt one road investments are encouraged.
casinos and gambling are illegal to invest in, participate in as employees, and arguably illegal for Chinese nationals to gamble in overseas.
hotels and resorts discouraged.
it is all in the August directive from the Chinese gov that i have cited repeatedly.
so whatever we think- the Chinese gov has very clear policies.
What I don't understand is if the casinos are illegal, why don't the Chinese crack down on the massive online gambling going on here.
It's been said previously that they are not stupid and have their gov't agents all over Sihanoukville. At the top level, the Chinese and HE are best friends, it would
take just one request from them to have the khmers get rid of all the chinese online gamblers here in a second.
It seems to me they have front companies, corruption, etc. something more complex then we understand to get around the laws of China, and apparently the people running the casinos are not afraid of the chinese rules,
if they were they would pull their casino investments here.
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by MrKikilu » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:35 am

The casinos are not illegal. By having a bricks and mortar casino they get an online casino license with it. Foot traffic is least of their concern
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by superferret » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:28 am

MrKikilu wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:35 am
The casinos are not illegal. By having a bricks and mortar casino they get an online casino license with it. Foot traffic is least of their concern
Are you reading the thread, frank lee bent just said it was illegal citing the Chinese law. So we have two guys directly contradicting each other here.
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Re: predictions on future of sihanoukville and cambodia in general

Post by offroadscholar » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:18 am

cptrelentless wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:41 pm
frank lee bent wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:14 pm
infrastructure yes. one belt one road investments are encouraged.
casinos and gambling are illegal to invest in, participate in as employees, and arguably illegal for Chinese nationals to gamble in overseas.
hotels and resorts discouraged.
it is all in the August directive from the Chinese gov that i have cited repeatedly.
so whatever we think- the Chinese gov has very clear policies.

what you are seeing now is just a mad scramble for the scraps, because future dealings will be via untrustworthy nominees.
that is how it is with organized crime- which this is, QED; via gov policy.
that is why it can easily come to an abrupt end.
all you have to do is watch the door on these places.
lots of customers coming and going?
No?
I was told by someone, can't remember who, but the online gambling is pretty much paying for everything, the footfall for actual customers is still very small. He was in the Jin Bao and was talking about the online workers coming downstairs to gamble in their free time, and they had wads of hundreds.
So given the odds, they're effectively working for free.
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