Well JB, it's not surprising you missed that report, as you seem to havee missed all the decent reports on MFIs too. Even though I've tried to make people aware of them by posting them here.

I find it highly amusing that people defend tuk tuks and MFIs and call me racist because i don't support dodgey people, whether Cambodian or not, BTW the big MFIs are owned by foreigners as well as Khmer. At times i think I'm the only one prepared to stand up for the people who have lost between 12 and 15% of the land here through MFI loan defaults of $5000 or less per family. I'm just a bit surprrised that people who rage against the banks normally suddenly go quiet when it's MFIs.

You can perhaps forgive those investing from abroad who have never seen the poverty here, but i find it a bit much that people who see the poor Cambodians' lot don't seem to give a f as long as they get their high returns.

Anyhow JB, here's the recent report you missed:

From​ 7 July 2017
Land disputes increase: report

"
7 Jul, 2017 Soth Koemsoeun

There were 56 new land disputes across the country last year, adding to 314 unresolved case at the end of 2015, a report issued yesterday by the NGO Forum on Cambodia says, marking the highest number of new cases since the group started monitoring in 2007.

The NGO Forum report was launched yesterday in Phnom Penh and shows that the closest to 2016’s bumper year for new disputes was 2012, when 46 new disputes were registered.

Last year’s figure is also a large leap from 2015, which saw only 23 cases. “This is because development activity around Phnom Penh has increased, and other areas where land has been given to foreign companies for agricultural purposes,”said Tek Vannara, the executive director of NGO Forum, which is a coalition of groups.

The report also says that only 58 pre-existing disputes were resolved in 2016, far lower than each of the preceding four years except for 2015, when only 21 cases were resolved. The low number of resolutions came even as the other 314 unresolved cases affected more than 54,000 households, and covered over a million hectares, it says.

Vong Kosal, NGO Forum’s land safety coordinator, said authorities had been slow in solving cases because they did not want to become involved in disputes. “The authorities do not have the will to solve the problem for the people,” Kosal said. “The land grabbers are powerful and rich, and the land disputes are political, so the solution is postponed.”

Am Sam Ath, head of monitoting at rights group Licadho, which is part of the NGO Forum, said the high new number of cases showed the urgency of dealing with land disputes. “They [the affected] need to earn a living, and when their land is being exploited they have no time to think about their jobs".
http://m.phnompenhpost.com/national/lan ... ase-report

30/06/2017 – by Sun Narin
Land titles help to prevent conflict
Why land disputes have become a serious and persistent issue in Cambodia
Land disputes have become a serious and persistent issue in Cambodia. In response to unrest, the government stopped leasing large plots to private-sector investors a few years ago. Earlier land deals, however, are still causing tensions.

Full article :https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/why-lan ... e-cambodia

CEOCambodiaNews wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:09 pm 30/06/2017 – by Sun Narin
Land titles help to prevent conflict
Why land disputes have become a serious and persistent issue in Cambodia
Land disputes have become a serious and persistent issue in Cambodia. In response to unrest, the government stopped leasing large plots to private-sector investors a few years ago. Earlier land deals, however, are still causing tensions.

Full article :https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/why-lan ... e-cambodia

Good report. My mentioning that some of the new disputes maybe related to MFI loans gone bad are reasons such as:
It's a fairly new​ phenomenon, and that would tie in with the increased figures of disputes.
If people lose their land this way then there would​ be a percentage of them that complained.

It's​ completely unregulated, so who really knows.The NGO quoted doesn't mention anything about MFIs , but i would like to ask him a few questions. Maybe they don't even allow any complaints​ of loss of land by MFI loan default, or maybe it doesn't come under land disputes.
I bet they are not even legally required to hand over the information to the public.

Linking MFIs to land disputes is tenuous at best. And the figures always seem to be higher than XXXX.

Take this RFA report from 2015.

A surge in land disputes in Cambodia affected more than three times as many families last year as in 2013, a local rights group said Thursday, urging Prime Minister HE’s government to address the issue with “long-term lasting solutions” instead of making empty promises.

Rights group Licadho said it documented 10,625 families, or an estimated 49,519 individuals, newly affected by land conflicts in 2014—up from 3,475 families a year earlier and nearly twice as many as the 5,672 families recorded in 2012.

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodi ... 14159.html

“The root causes of land conflicts have been well-documented: a corrupt and politically-obedient judicial system, the misuse of armed forces, including soldiers, as well as collusion between well-connected companies and authorities,” Licadho technical coordinator Am Sam Ath said.

I'm sure NGOs and rights groups would be all over MFIs involved in shady land grabbing, especially the ones connected to western parent companies, such as ANZ and Royal Group, http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/a ... an-partner

If there is some evidence to back up your claims that such disputes are caused in whole, or in part to legitimate MFIs, then I'll be happy to see it.

Kampong Spooner wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:24 pm Linking MFIs to land disputes is tenuous at best. And the figures always seem to be higher than XXXX.

Take this RFA report from 2015.

A surge in land disputes in Cambodia affected more than three times as many families last year as in 2013, a local rights group said Thursday, urging Prime Minister HE’s government to address the issue with “long-term lasting solutions” instead of making empty promises.

Rights group Licadho said it documented 10,625 families, or an estimated 49,519 individuals, newly affected by land conflicts in 2014—up from 3,475 families a year earlier and nearly twice as many as the 5,672 families recorded in 2012.

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodi ... 14159.html

“The root causes of land conflicts have been well-documented: a corrupt and politically-obedient judicial system, the misuse of armed forces, including soldiers, as well as collusion between well-connected companies and authorities,” Licadho technical coordinator Am Sam Ath said.

I'm sure NGOs and rights groups would be all over MFIs involved in shady land grabbing, especially the ones connected to western parent companies, such as ANZ and Royal Group, http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/a ... an-partner

If there is some evidence to back up your claims that such disputes are caused in whole, or in part to legitimate MFIs, then I'll be happy to see it.

Nothing definate at the moment. I think my first reason may be off as it's probably not that recent a problem. But i thnk my second point about people who have lost their land to debt would definately complain somewhere, is still valid. I am just reading a long report from an independant in Bangladesh though. Will post what I find.

Not so sure that NGOs would necessarily be causing a stink as far as the borrower's are concerned, lots of the MFIs are run by them. I would hope LICADHO would mention it, but there has been nothng in the so called free press much about the negative​ side to taking out loans. One article in the PPP, and one good letter to the editor in the CD. It's like the good journalists have to sneak it in, and maybe they don't​ want to see any loss in FDI. The PM probably only started making noises when the results of his secret nation wide poll came in. lol

I do know that almost all MFIs were run by NGOs on a different model of self financing​ before around 2008, when they changed their funding due to increased competition by other MFIs, and big banks getting involved. I'm just trying to accumulate info on loan default time - how long beford repossession of the land from not being able to pay the weekly/ monthly etc repayments.

You said you had taken out one with your family. Any interesting observations to comment on?
How easy was it to get?
What did they want in terms of security?
How long were they prepared to wait before you defaulted your securities to them?
How eager were they to give you a loan?
Do you think they explained the whole thing clearly enough, including default penalties and their timings?

AlonzoPartriz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:47 pm

Kampong Spooner wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:24 pm Linking MFIs to land disputes is tenuous at best. And the figures always seem to be higher than XXXX.

Take this RFA report from 2015.

A surge in land disputes in Cambodia affected more than three times as many families last year as in 2013, a local rights group said Thursday, urging Prime Minister HE’s government to address the issue with “long-term lasting solutions” instead of making empty promises.

Rights group Licadho said it documented 10,625 families, or an estimated 49,519 individuals, newly affected by land conflicts in 2014—up from 3,475 families a year earlier and nearly twice as many as the 5,672 families recorded in 2012.

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodi ... 14159.html

“The root causes of land conflicts have been well-documented: a corrupt and politically-obedient judicial system, the misuse of armed forces, including soldiers, as well as collusion between well-connected companies and authorities,” Licadho technical coordinator Am Sam Ath said.

I'm sure NGOs and rights groups would be all over MFIs involved in shady land grabbing, especially the ones connected to western parent companies, such as ANZ and Royal Group, http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/a ... an-partner

If there is some evidence to back up your claims that such disputes are caused in whole, or in part to legitimate MFIs, then I'll be happy to see it.

Nothing definate at the moment. I think my first reason may be off as it's probably not that recent a problem. But i thnk my second point about people who have lost their land to debt would definately complain somewhere, is still valid. I am just reading a long report from an independant in Bangladesh though. Will post what I find.

Not so sure that NGOs would necessarily be causing a stink as far as the borrower's are concerned, lots of the MFIs are run by them. I would hope LICADHO would mention it, but there has been nothng in the so called free press much about the negative​ side to taking out loans. One article in the PPP, and one good letter to the editor in the CD. It's like the good journalists have to sneak it in, and maybe they don't​ want to see any loss in FDI. The PM probably only started making noises when the results of his secret nation wide poll came in. lol

I do know that almost all MFIs were run by NGOs on a different model of self financing​ before around 2008, when they changed their funding due to increased competition by other MFIs, and big banks getting involved. I'm just trying to accumulate info on loan default time - how long beford repossession of the land from not being able to pay the weekly/ monthly etc repayments.

You said you had taken out one with your family. Any interesting observations to comment on?

Not really, they give me money, I pay them back. No different to a Visa card, really.

How easy was it to get?

Reasonably. All my in-laws work for government, so that helps. Plenty of thumb prints and land titles (which we got for free after having soft title since time began)

What did they want in terms of security?

Thumb prints of various family + a copy of hard title

How long were they prepared to wait before you defaulted your securities to them?

Dunno, don't plan on defaulting, probably a few months grace, I'll ask

How eager were they to give you a loan?

Several meetings and various family member's proof of income. Mine wasn't needed, even though it's more than theirs combined. Having a good history probably helped + the threat of taking said good history elsewhere. I wanted the money more, I think.

Do you think they explained the whole thing clearly enough, including default penalties and their timings?

They have the payment schedule, the wife agreed, other family agreed as backers. As for the penalties, I'm not sure, but if you put a thumb print against Land title, it's fairly obvious what will happen if you don't pay up.



For what it's worth, I think the collateral is useless, a few hectares of rice swamp. I'd happily default, but then get blacklisted.


It's a risk, granted, but in 10 months everything is paid and I own a new house outright. I see no difference between credit cards/ hire purchase sofas from dfs tbh.

Kampong Spooner wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:14 pm

AlonzoPartriz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:47 pm

Kampong Spooner wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:24 pm Linking MFIs to land disputes is tenuous at best. And the figures always seem to be higher than XXXX.

Take this RFA report from 2015.

A surge in land disputes in Cambodia affected more than three times as many families last year as in 2013, a local rights group said Thursday, urging Prime Minister HE’s government to address the issue with “long-term lasting solutions” instead of making empty promises.

Rights group Licadho said it documented 10,625 families, or an estimated 49,519 individuals, newly affected by land conflicts in 2014—up from 3,475 families a year earlier and nearly twice as many as the 5,672 families recorded in 2012.

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodi ... 14159.html

“The root causes of land conflicts have been well-documented: a corrupt and politically-obedient judicial system, the misuse of armed forces, including soldiers, as well as collusion between well-connected companies and authorities,” Licadho technical coordinator Am Sam Ath said.

I'm sure NGOs and rights groups would be all over MFIs involved in shady land grabbing, especially the ones connected to western parent companies, such as ANZ and Royal Group, http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/a ... an-partner

If there is some evidence to back up your claims that such disputes are caused in whole, or in part to legitimate MFIs, then I'll be happy to see it.

Nothing definate at the moment. I think my first reason may be off as it's probably not that recent a problem. But i thnk my second point about people who have lost their land to debt would definately complain somewhere, is still valid. I am just reading a long report from an independant in Bangladesh though. Will post what I find.

Not so sure that NGOs would necessarily be causing a stink as far as the borrower's are concerned, lots of the MFIs are run by them. I would hope LICADHO would mention it, but there has been nothng in the so called free press much about the negative​ side to taking out loans. One article in the PPP, and one good letter to the editor in the CD. It's like the good journalists have to sneak it in, and maybe they don't​ want to see any loss in FDI. The PM probably only started making noises when the results of his secret nation wide poll came in. lol

I do know that almost all MFIs were run by NGOs on a different model of self financing​ before around 2008, when they changed their funding due to increased competition by other MFIs, and big banks getting involved. I'm just trying to accumulate info on loan default time - how long beford repossession of the land from not being able to pay the weekly/ monthly etc repayments.

You said you had taken out one with your family. Any interesting observations to comment on?

Not really, they give me money, I pay them back. No different to a Visa card, really.

How easy was it to get?

Reasonably. All my in-laws work for government, so that helps. Plenty of thumb prints and land titles (which we got for free after having soft title since time began)

What did they want in terms of security?

Thumb prints of various family + a copy of hard title

How long were they prepared to wait before you defaulted your securities to them?

Dunno, don't plan on defaulting, probably a few months grace, I'll ask

How eager were they to give you a loan?

Several meetings and various family member's proof of income. Mine wasn't needed, even though it's more than theirs combined. Having a good history probably helped + the threat of taking said good history elsewhere. I wanted the money more, I think.

Do you think they explained the whole thing clearly enough, including default penalties and their timings?

They have the payment schedule, the wife agreed, other family agreed as backers. As for the penalties, I'm not sure, but if you put a thumb print against Land title, it's fairly obvious what will happen if you don't pay up.



For what it's worth, I think the collateral is useless, a few hectares of rice swamp. I'd happily default, but then get blacklisted.


It's a risk, granted, but in 10 months everything is paid and I own a new house outright. I see no difference between credit cards/ hire purchase sofas from dfs tbh.

Thanks very much for that. It ties in with what I've been reading.
It sounds like it works out well for people who are in you and your family's position. Wouldn't they be able to borrow the money by raising it within the extended family if the MFIs didn't exist? Or wouldn't it be cheaper to get a small direct bank loan?

In your situation they don't seem a bad idea, nobody's​ arguing that, just so long as disaster doesn't strike. You mention it being similar to your mind as credit cards. Do credit card companies repossess your house and land? I should have thought that if they did, it would tske a few years before it happened.

Remember the people I'm focusing on are not the ones who can afford to save, or own other properties/ land. The one's I'm talking about have a small piece​ of land they use to survive on - farm and live on. They lose that, they've lost the lot.
Hardly the idealogical model the MFIs were set up on is it?

If it is one or two that are losing their land, it's​ understandable. But when 12 - 15% of land in Cambodia has been lost to MFI default, alarm bells should have burnt their motors out, they'd been ringing so long. Instead of that, we've hardly heard a

w h i s p e r.

Hard to raise money on $250 a month government pay check. But loyalty goes a little way.

An idiot relative owes a shit load, to mfi and various loansharks. All she's got is snotty phone calls for a year. A case of can't pay, won't pay. So far she still had her land.

Another guy I know is a wealthy loaner, who is very high up in government. His wife (obviously, who is good at business and that sort of thing) will only lend to those who are deemed good enough to pay back, because even with his influence, from what he says, repo is a massive ballache, even with less than sc than scrupulous courts, it takes time and money to get the collateral back, and even then, what do you do with a few hectares of swamp?

Don't forget face. I bought a cow off a cousin who needed to pay back his arrears. Whilst that might prove your point to some degree, it also shows that most will try to pay before getting into massive debts. (BTW he ripped me off, $900 for a pregnant cow. It wasn't pregnant, so $6-700 real value, bastard)

As far as 10-15% of land loss, care to show where those numbers came from?

This is 100% information from the horse's mouth. None of the fucker are happy about paying back, but they understand the risks, which from my view don't seem 'that' bad, given the world of payday loans and other nefarious going on from a civilized place where we're from.

Never a lender nor borrower be tbh.