Koh Rong Samloem

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giblet
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby giblet » Sat May 31, 2014 11:09 am

JBTrain wrote:There is no wrong in Anglicized Khmer. Look at highway signs or other government funded projects and you'll see myriad spellings for the same place. There is no official bible, it's not the BBC.
I agree that multiple spellings can be "correct" but apparently the current spelling implies a different sound completely, which I think would make it incorrect if true. And how is the BBC supposed to decide when they write about the place?
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby Username Taken » Sat May 31, 2014 11:09 am

It has 'helicopters'. Great for playing

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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby indigo_design » Sat May 31, 2014 1:24 pm

Username Taken wrote:
Jaap N. wrote:
CharlieHarpersBar wrote:Mind you, I've seen many different spellings of Ochheuteal on the road signs directing you there!
I've been wondering about that name, 'Ochheuteal'. What does it mean?
Not sure about the 'O', but the chheauteal refers to the Tiel tree.

Chheau = tree

"Dipterocarpus alatus
Dipterocarpus alatus is a tropical forest tree, of dense evergreen or mixed dense forests, common in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam."

:hattip:
I believe the 'O' means creek / river. Same for O'Tres.

I go with Koh Rong Samloem by the way. :thumb:
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby StroppyChops » Sat May 31, 2014 1:39 pm

Username Taken wrote:It has 'helicopters'. Great for playing

Image
I remember something similar from schoolyard days - something from the jacaranda family?
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby Bitte_Kein_Lexus » Sat May 31, 2014 5:56 pm

JBTrain wrote:
OrangeDragon wrote:Tell us a little about yourself.

I've been living here 2 years, am married to a wonderful Khmer woman (who is one of the best cooks I know... western or asian food), work online for companies in the US doing software and web design with a small side business here of setting off professional firework displays, like long walks on the beach (holding Cambod's hand optional) and watching the sunset over a large glass of mojito.
There is no wrong in Anglicized Khmer. Look at highway signs or other government funded projects and you'll see myriad spellings for the same place. There is no official bible, it's not the BBC.
There's no wrong when you're trying to romanize certain letters/sounds (for example, when either p or b can be used as there is no equivalent sound in English). However, the difference between N and M is easily distinguishable in both Khmer and English. No real excuse for the mistake. Seems it's just been copy-pasted over the years.
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby LTO » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:25 pm

Username Taken wrote:
Jaap N. wrote:
CharlieHarpersBar wrote:Mind you, I've seen many different spellings of Ochheuteal on the road signs directing you there!
I've been wondering about that name, 'Ochheuteal'. What does it mean?
Not sure about the 'O', but the chheauteal refers to the Tiel tree....
The 'O' on Ochheuteal means 'creek' as in a small river. Same as Otres Beach, and the road names for the road that goes from the back of the town to Otres - Omui, Opii, Obei, Obun, Obram...
JBTrain wrote:There is no wrong in Anglicized Khmer. Look at highway signs or other government funded projects and you'll see myriad spellings for the same place. There is no official bible, it's not the BBC.
Not true. There is an official (government approved) transliteration system for Khmer/English and official place names and place name spellings as issued by the Cambodian Department of Geography. Before making signs, maps, etc, the project is supposed to contact and receive approval for the spelling from the Dept of Geo. As evidenced by the variety of spellings out there, not all follow the rules. Misspellings are also sometimes due to the sign maker preferring a different spelling for some other reason, such as it being traditional, more common, etc. (e.g. the official spelling of Siem Reap is Siem Reab, but almost nobody uses it.) Still, the Dept of Geo does sometimes make a stink about official spellings and makes them change spellings on signs and such.

Regarding the spelling of Koh Rong Samloem, it doesn't matter much how some random guy thinks it should be transliterated. The only transliteration that comes attached with a "should be spelled this way" is the official transliteration issued by the Cambodian Department of Geography. I can't find my most recent official map, but here is the official map from the 80s, which also happens to agree with the French nautical maps from the 50s and 60s. I'll see if I can't find my newest official map to confirm.

Image
Last edited by LTO on Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby giblet » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:59 pm

And there you have it, folks. Back to work.
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby Bitte_Kein_Lexus » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:05 pm

LTO wrote:[
Not true. There is an official (government approved) transliteration system for Khmer/English and official place names and place name spellings as issued by the Cambodian Department of Geography. Before making signs, maps, etc, the project is supposed to contact and receive approval for the spelling from the Dept of Geo. As evidenced by the variety of spellings out there, not all follow the rules. Misspellings are also sometimes due to the sign maker preferring a different spelling for some other reason, such as it being traditional, more common, etc. (e.g. the official spelling of Siem Reap is Siem Reab, but almost nobody uses it.) Still, the Dept of Geo does sometimes make a stink about official spellings and makes them change spellings on signs and such.

Regarding the spelling of Koh Rong Samloem, it doesn't matter much how some random guy thinks it should be transliterated. The only transliteration that comes attached with a "should be spelled this way" is the official transliteration issued by the Cambodian Department of Geography. I can't find my most recent official map, but here is the official map from the 80s, which also happens to agree with the French nautical maps from the 50s and 60s. I'll see if I can't find my newest official map to confirm.
Interesting, I would have assumed it was the ministry of public works and transport who did that as they're the ones that print out most maps (never knew there was a Department of Geography). A lot of the older French maps have vastly different spellings than the ones used today, mainly because they were geared to French-speakers. Although they're usually pretty accurate in terms of sound, most non-Francophones would find them hard to read, so a lot of the romanization has changed over time. I wonder if the Ministry of Geography are the ones who have been talking to Google and are thus responsible for all the recent name changes.

Anyways, I'm not exactly a Khmer linguist, but I'd say that's most definitely an "n" sound:
កោះរ៉ុងសន្លឹម (the ន្លឹ wouldn't really sound like an "m" to anyone I'd think. Maybe a few people can ask their wives or something).

Anyways, it would be interesting to see a modern map to know what the most recent version of it is.
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby Username Taken » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:02 pm

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:Anyways, I'm not exactly a Khmer linguist, but I'd say that's most definitely an "n" sound:
កោះរ៉ុងសន្លឹម (the ន្លឹ wouldn't really sound like an "m" to anyone I'd think. Maybe a few people can ask their wives or something).
I'd agree with that, but . . .

Is it possible that there is no correct way to spell it in Khmer?
A quick glance at the top of LTO's map, it looks like there is a 'sara om / am' above the Sor - like this សំ
Unfortunately there is a wrinkle in the map at that point, so it's not quite clear. But, if that is the case, it would probably be transliterated as 'Som' or 'Sam', rather than with the 'n' sound as you say. Koh Rong Samloem.

Perhaps it's an old spelling.
Perhaps I'm wrong.

@LTO, can you iron the map a bit and re-post?
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Re: Koh Rong Samloem

Postby LTO » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:25 am

Username Taken wrote:@LTO, can you iron the map a bit and re-post?
Too drunk to post words.

Here is the 80s map closer:
Image

I've also got the official transliteration sheet around here somewhere...somewhere...
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