AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
- armchairlawyer
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Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
SAI disclosed some pax numbers recently which indicated low average pax loadings. Not surpirised given the prices of most of those flights.rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:16 pm
Cambodia Airports used to regularly disclose monthly passenger figures for each airport, including domestic routes, making it straightforward to determine load factors for the domestic flights. However, only limited statistics are made available since the onset of the pandemic.
Air Asia may have less flights to DMK compared to pre-Covid but the overall capacity is a lot higher due to the additional airlines on the route (who are all competing fiercely on price)
The Thai and Malay divisions are separate entities I believe, so why would they give up their slots to the new Cambodian entity?
Yes, the wkipedia page for AA Cambodia states 4 A321neos with pax capacity of 236 each. It also says ops will begin in November 2023!
The aircraft range is 4000 miles. So, yes that would be suited to India and China.
I don't see them operating successfully on the DMK and KUL routes so I'd say it's India/China or bust. AA were probably hoping that China would have opened up by now and since it hasn't, they are happy to let things drift for a while.
Indians are travelling but they go to BKK mostly for shopping. PP will have a hard time competing on that level.
Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
I have been looking at visiting Delhi in the next few months and after a bit of enquiry discovered the following:
Same day flights from PNH to either BOM or DEL are about $475+ through SkyScanner and most options have horrible flight times or layovers. Thai Airways dump you in New Delhi at 2AM!
The reason (I think) is because the PNH - BKK leg are both one way flights to connect with the cheap flights to India and reduce overall travel time.
About $150 of that fare is fees and taxes. Routing through BKK is not cheap as each flight is a separate entity and given the ++++ treatment.
Direct flights from BKK to either DEL or BOM are about $280 with either SpiceJet or IndiaGo. A bit of competition has got those fares to a reasonable level for a 4-hour flight and civilised flight times. That leaves ~$200 for your flight from PNH to BKK. That's enough for a flight and 2 nights hotel if you aren't too fussy.
These prices are for next month but have been similar for a while. It is very messy trying to get from Phnom Penh to Delhi or Mumbai on the same day, so a direct flight does have a big USP.
However, unless a direct flight from PNH to DEL/BOM is less than $300, the value of flying direct versus transiting comes into question. If the try and charge ~$400+ for a direct flight (I bet they will) then you might as well go via BKK and have a day or two there at each end of your India trip; consider the flight as a freebie.
As they will be the only carrier operating the route, don't expect any favours. Look no further than fares from PNH to SAI to see what a sole carrier wants to charge you.
Plus, with AA, you will have to pay a lot for luggage (included with IndiaGo and SpiceJet) and suffer AA's tiny seat pitch for 4 hours. If you are going for a week, that 7kg becomes a factor (unless you like ferreting out a back street laundry or paying hotel laundry rates)
Finally, can anyone see enough well-heeled Khmers interested in visiting India to warrant a direct route? Those who do might well conclude that $400+ for a direct flight versus $400 via BKK will still choose the Bangkok option.
Same day flights from PNH to either BOM or DEL are about $475+ through SkyScanner and most options have horrible flight times or layovers. Thai Airways dump you in New Delhi at 2AM!
The reason (I think) is because the PNH - BKK leg are both one way flights to connect with the cheap flights to India and reduce overall travel time.
About $150 of that fare is fees and taxes. Routing through BKK is not cheap as each flight is a separate entity and given the ++++ treatment.
Direct flights from BKK to either DEL or BOM are about $280 with either SpiceJet or IndiaGo. A bit of competition has got those fares to a reasonable level for a 4-hour flight and civilised flight times. That leaves ~$200 for your flight from PNH to BKK. That's enough for a flight and 2 nights hotel if you aren't too fussy.
These prices are for next month but have been similar for a while. It is very messy trying to get from Phnom Penh to Delhi or Mumbai on the same day, so a direct flight does have a big USP.
However, unless a direct flight from PNH to DEL/BOM is less than $300, the value of flying direct versus transiting comes into question. If the try and charge ~$400+ for a direct flight (I bet they will) then you might as well go via BKK and have a day or two there at each end of your India trip; consider the flight as a freebie.
As they will be the only carrier operating the route, don't expect any favours. Look no further than fares from PNH to SAI to see what a sole carrier wants to charge you.
Plus, with AA, you will have to pay a lot for luggage (included with IndiaGo and SpiceJet) and suffer AA's tiny seat pitch for 4 hours. If you are going for a week, that 7kg becomes a factor (unless you like ferreting out a back street laundry or paying hotel laundry rates)
Finally, can anyone see enough well-heeled Khmers interested in visiting India to warrant a direct route? Those who do might well conclude that $400+ for a direct flight versus $400 via BKK will still choose the Bangkok option.
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Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
Cambodia Angkor Air is also launching Phnom Penh - Delhi route. Was supposed to start already in October this year but they pushed till February 2024. I believe due to that they don't have enough planes during peak season.Doc67 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:23 am I have been looking at visiting Delhi in the next few months and after a bit of enquiry discovered the following:
Same day flights from PNH to either BOM or DEL are about $475+ through SkyScanner and most options have horrible flight times or layovers. Thai Airways dump you in New Delhi at 2AM!
The reason (I think) is because the PNH - BKK leg are both one way flights to connect with the cheap flights to India and reduce overall travel time.
About $150 of that fare is fees and taxes. Routing through BKK is not cheap as each flight is a separate entity and given the ++++ treatment.
Direct flights from BKK to either DEL or BOM are about $280 with either SpiceJet or IndiaGo. A bit of competition has got those fares to a reasonable level for a 4-hour flight and civilised flight times. That leaves ~$200 for your flight from PNH to BKK. That's enough for a flight and 2 nights hotel if you aren't too fussy.
These prices are for next month but have been similar for a while. It is very messy trying to get from Phnom Penh to Delhi or Mumbai on the same day, so a direct flight does have a big USP.
However, unless a direct flight from PNH to DEL/BOM is less than $300, the value of flying direct versus transiting comes into question. If the try and charge ~$400+ for a direct flight (I bet they will) then you might as well go via BKK and have a day or two there at each end of your India trip; consider the flight as a freebie.
As they will be the only carrier operating the route, don't expect any favours. Look no further than fares from PNH to SAI to see what a sole carrier wants to charge you.
Plus, with AA, you will have to pay a lot for luggage (included with IndiaGo and SpiceJet) and suffer AA's tiny seat pitch for 4 hours. If you are going for a week, that 7kg becomes a factor (unless you like ferreting out a back street laundry or paying hotel laundry rates)
Finally, can anyone see enough well-heeled Khmers interested in visiting India to warrant a direct route? Those who do might well conclude that $400+ for a direct flight versus $400 via BKK will still choose the Bangkok option.
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/231023-k61q24
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Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
Actually the capacity on PP-BKK route is pretty much same as 2019, I stand corrected. Forgot totally that Thai Vietjet is flying on that route now days too. Not counting just DMK but flights both airports in Bangkok.armchairlawyer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:17 pmSAI disclosed some pax numbers recently which indicated low average pax loadings. Not surpirised given the prices of most of those flights.rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:16 pm
Cambodia Airports used to regularly disclose monthly passenger figures for each airport, including domestic routes, making it straightforward to determine load factors for the domestic flights. However, only limited statistics are made available since the onset of the pandemic.
Air Asia may have less flights to DMK compared to pre-Covid but the overall capacity is a lot higher due to the additional airlines on the route (who are all competing fiercely on price)
The Thai and Malay divisions are separate entities I believe, so why would they give up their slots to the new Cambodian entity?
Yes, the wkipedia page for AA Cambodia states 4 A321neos with pax capacity of 236 each. It also says ops will begin in November 2023!
The aircraft range is 4000 miles. So, yes that would be suited to India and China.
I don't see them operating successfully on the DMK and KUL routes so I'd say it's India/China or bust. AA were probably hoping that China would have opened up by now and since it hasn't, they are happy to let things drift for a while.
Indians are travelling but they go to BKK mostly for shopping. PP will have a hard time competing on that level.
On KL route there is still much less capacity.
Yes I think they are separate entities but I would think the parent AirAsia has some saying what routes each of the entities fly. But like I said, it's more likely the KL and BKK flights will be additional flights.
There is pretty big Indian population in Cambodia now days. I would think that is enough to have couple flights per week. Also Indian tourism to Cambodia has surged from ~20k in 2022 (total) up to ~55k in 10 months in 2023.
Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
I don't know any Khmers who WANT to visit India, but I know several who HAVE to visit India. They'd probably prefer a direct flight to get there with minimal hassle and delay. A stopover in Bangkok isn't fun unless you can make a holiday out of it.
Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
The flight times are horrible.rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:23 pmCambodia Angkor Air is also launching Phnom Penh - Delhi route. Was supposed to start already in October this year but they pushed till February 2024. I believe due to that they don't have enough planes during peak season.
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/231023-k61q24
Phnom Penh – Delhi eff 01FEB24 4 weekly A320 (Previous: eff 29OCT23)
K6760 PNH1850 – 2215DEL 320 135
K6760 PNH1905 – 2215DEL 320 4
K6761 DEL2315 – 0515+1PNH 320 x267
You arrive in Delhi at 22:15, so your first night's hotel is wasted as it will be past midnight when you check-in.
On the return leaving at 23:15, unless you want to check out by midday and hang about, you're going to have to pay for another wasted night. Plus the joy of being woken up in the middle of the night for landing, assuming you get any sleep at all. I avoid flights like these unless there is no other option.
Outbound BKK - DEL SpiceJet: D 11:05 A 14:05 (One Way $139)
Inbound DEL - BKK IndiGo D 10:25 A 16:10 (One Way $145)
Getting to Delhi is a doddle and cheap, if you are in BKK. If you are going to have to waste 1 or 2 nights of hotel accommodation in Delhi to accommodate duff flight times, you might as well do it in BKK and enjoy civilised flight times on all sectors and make it a two-country break.
Of course, this is all for leisure travelers. Business/work has different considerations.
- armchairlawyer
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Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
I would have no problem with that outbound, assuming I wanted to go to Delhi, which I don't.Doc67 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 3:24 pmThe flight times are horrible.rogerrabbit wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:23 pmCambodia Angkor Air is also launching Phnom Penh - Delhi route. Was supposed to start already in October this year but they pushed till February 2024. I believe due to that they don't have enough planes during peak season.
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/231023-k61q24
Phnom Penh – Delhi eff 01FEB24 4 weekly A320 (Previous: eff 29OCT23)
K6760 PNH1850 – 2215DEL 320 135
K6760 PNH1905 – 2215DEL 320 4
K6761 DEL2315 – 0515+1PNH 320 x267
You arrive in Delhi at 22:15, so your first night's hotel is wasted as it will be past midnight when you check-in.
On the return leaving at 23:15, unless you want to check out by midday and hang about, you're going to have to pay for another wasted night. Plus the joy of being woken up in the middle of the night for landing, assuming you get any sleep at all. I avoid flights like these unless there is no other option.
The return is a classic red-eye.
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Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
Launch delayed to mid-2024.
https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/a ... 24.articleCambodia launch pushed to mid-2024
...
Meanwhile, AirAsia Cambodia – the group’s fifth airline unit – was originally to have launched operations by end-2023. Neither the carrier nor the AirAsia group indicated reasons for the delay.
- armchairlawyer
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Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
Meanwhile Cambodia Airways has reannounced a new route to Delhi, this time starting in June/July. This will remove a large part of the rationale for Air Asia opening the new base, see posts above.
- newkidontheblock
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Re: AirAsia Plans to Launch Low-Cost Airline in Cambodia
Forget the Cambodian domestic airports. Chinese investment is pulling back. Way back. Current international airport construction is issuing public bonds to complete.
Countries tied to the BRI are economically suffering as depression hits China.
Hopefully Cambodia can wean itself from cheap Chinese loans and expand to the rest of the world.
Countries tied to the BRI are economically suffering as depression hits China.
Hopefully Cambodia can wean itself from cheap Chinese loans and expand to the rest of the world.
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