Wasn't NATO formed to prevent war?

nemo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:37 am I am sure the outcome will figure largely into CCP plans for Taiwan.

Weird connection, not the same situation.

Ukrainian of Kiev considered for years that Donetsk and Lougansk are not in Ukraine.
The 2 regions declared their independence in 2014/2015.
Russia approving it is a non event.

US cannot let EU be energy dependant on Russia.
EU is dumb enough to follow US even if it's against their own interest.
Gas price will skyrocket in EU.
German industry will be hit really hard if it keeps going.

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:14 am How can anyone support an aggressor willing to take the world to the brink of a war
for what??
financial gains>>>>>

YES. How can anyone support unprovoked military aggression? Before any of you point out the unprovoked attack by the U.S. on Iraq, I never understood why people supported that one either, except they were angry at the 9/11 attacks and had to attack somebody. Possibly it's the same for Russia now. Russia is being left out of the world's economic expansion, the rest of the world is prospering, Russia is not, it's population decreasing, it's once poor underling, China is now dominant. To put things in even more stark contrast three U.S. states each separately have economies larger than Russia, either California or Texas or, and New York. Russia is a an underdog, really a cowed and cornered dog, which is very dangerous for everyone, the Russian people even more than others. And with a Putin as its leader, God help us all! And all this is going to be expensive for Russia's small economy to support, when they should be investing in their economy. The Russian people will be even worse off, but probably praising Putin for making them look "strong." This is a loose loose situation for everyone. And unlike the U.S. war on Iraq, this one has the potential to become a world wide conflict. Anyone praising this insane aggression should think long and hard about that.

Yobbo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:09 am Wasn't NATO formed to prevent war?

Nato has done a good job in Europe since 1949. The idea that Ukraine would be admitted is for the birds. As much as Ukraine would love the benefit of the protection it confers, there isn't a single NATO country that wants the obligations that comes with it. Not even the U.S.

Of more concern is Putin's rambling speech about the history of the Ukraine, going back over 100 years and blaming the Bolsheviks and Lenin in 1917 for artificially creating Ukraine. This is an alarming insight into his state of mind. The New York Times published a good assessment of his speech*

Mr. Putin’s speech was awash with hard-line Russian nationalism, angry paranoia toward the West, baseless claims of Ukrainian aggression, a sense of lost imperial pride on the verge of reclamation and, most of all, invocations of history, much of it distorted or fabricated.

Long periods of absolute power tends to make people paranoid and reclusive (Stalin was a good example of this by the time he died). They isolate themselves from much of the real world and they rarely have people around them that will question and challenge them, to keep them grounded in the reality of the situation, not the warped view that they hold. Factor in a huge and well equipped military with some of the best ballistic missiles in the world, plus enormous nuclear capacity, and that is a very dangerous recipe.

Serious people are starting to question his sanity and general mental health**.

**

“There was an extremely violent analysis, somewhat delusional and paranoid… with many historical lies,” said France’s Europe Minister Clement Beaune.

**

In unguarded comments reported by the Press Association, British Defence Minister Ben Wallace said Putin had gone “full tonto” and he was a man with “no friends, no alliances”.

[Not the most eloquent assessment, but it shows what people are thinking.]

Does this look like the behaviour of a sane man? This is him meeting his security council on Monday. Even if it was just for the cameras benefit, what kind of image does it attempt to portray?

I have a horrible feeling this situation is going to get much worse before it gets better.






** https://www.digitaljournal.com/world/uk ... ld/article

* https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/worl ... raine.html

I am listening to the radio and it is going off right now. Large explosion in Kharkiv in the east.

Putin just release another video timed for when the UN were meeting:

From 24m ago
03:01
Russian forces will carry out 'special military operation' in Ukraine, says Putin
Vladimir Putin has announced that Russia will carry out a “special military operation” in Ukraine, Reuters reports.

In an address to the Russian people under way now and coinciding with the United nations security council meeting, the Russian president also said:

Clashes between Ukrainian and Russian forces are “inevitable” and “only a question of time”.
Further nato expansion and its use of Ukraine’s territory are unacceptable
The Russian military operation aims to “protect people”
Circumstances “demand decisive action from Russia”

Updated at 3.07am GMT
FacebookTwitter
4m ago
03:21
Multiple reports are coming in of the sounds of explosions being heard across Ukraine, this morning.

“Two booms heard from my apartment on Khreshatyk, Kyiv in the past 3 minutes,” CNN reporter Neil Hauer said.

Other reports of a large explosion in Kharkiv in northeast Ukraine are also filtering through.

11m ago
03:14
Putin says he 'wants to “demilitarise and de-Nazify” Ukraine'
More from Putin’s address:

The Russian president says he wants to “demilitarise and de-Nazify” Ukraine Putin has also called on Ukrainian soldiers to put down their weapons and go home, according to Reuters, citing the Russian news agency Tass.

The Russian president adds that “in case of foreign interference, Russia will act immediately”.

Responsibility for bloodshed will be on the hands of the “Ukrainian regime”

Russia’s response “will be instant if anyone tries to take it on”

He tells Ukrainians that “your fathers and grandfathers did not fight so you could help ‘neo-Nazis’”

Hold onto your hats...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... fb1abbfba1

fuck

M with Russia but only because I’m a commy.

Doc67 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:27 am I am listening to the radio and it is going off right now. Large explosion in Kharkiv in the east.

Putin just release another video timed for when the UN were meeting:

From 24m ago
03:01
Russian forces will carry out 'special military operation' in Ukraine, says Putin
Vladimir Putin has announced that Russia will carry out a “special military operation” in Ukraine, Reuters reports.

In an address to the Russian people under way now and coinciding with the United nations security council meeting, the Russian president also said:

Clashes between Ukrainian and Russian forces are “inevitable” and “only a question of time”.
Further nato expansion and its use of Ukraine’s territory are unacceptable
The Russian military operation aims to “protect people”
Circumstances “demand decisive action from Russia”

Updated at 3.07am GMT
FacebookTwitter
4m ago
03:21
Multiple reports are coming in of the sounds of explosions being heard across Ukraine, this morning.

“Two booms heard from my apartment on Khreshatyk, Kyiv in the past 3 minutes,” CNN reporter Neil Hauer said.

Other reports of a large explosion in Kharkiv in northeast Ukraine are also filtering through.

11m ago
03:14
Putin says he 'wants to “demilitarise and de-Nazify” Ukraine'
More from Putin’s address:

The Russian president says he wants to “demilitarise and de-Nazify” Ukraine Putin has also called on Ukrainian soldiers to put down their weapons and go home, according to Reuters, citing the Russian news agency Tass.

The Russian president adds that “in case of foreign interference, Russia will act immediately”.

Responsibility for bloodshed will be on the hands of the “Ukrainian regime”

Russia’s response “will be instant if anyone tries to take it on”

He tells Ukrainians that “your fathers and grandfathers did not fight so you could help ‘neo-Nazis’”

Hold onto your hats...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... fb1abbfba1

This dude @Uncle-V works in Russia. Curious on his perspective.. Unsure how much he can say or if not a big deal