TheGrinchSR wrote:

SinnSisamouth wrote:so when these ruling classes are replaced what would we call these new people in charge?

cameron has done nothing wrong, legally or morally, its just the media and stupid tin foil hatters who cant see the facts for the steam coming out of their empty heads

Legally wrong? No. Morally wrong? 150%. David Cameron not only attacked Jimmy Carr's legal use of tax avoidance schemes but then has been caught avoiding tax himself. He is a hypocrite of the highest order and a drain on society. Dodging inheritance tax - that is tax on money which you did nothing for - is an action of total scum.

scum?
what would you call a child murderer or drunk driver who killed an entire family,for example?

jimmy car had been avoiding tax on income for years cameron tried to save some money by investing in a vehicle his dad set up. 30k wasnt it? woo hoo

i am not a tory boy but come on lets not all get carried away.
this will all be forgotten about in a months time

anyway to keep long story short, tax evasion is illegal but when rich and powerful people do it, its called tax avoidance and it becomes perfectly legal

tax avoidance - using an ISA, putting money in your pension, investing offshore legitimately like cameron and paying tax on your profits when it comes back
tax evasion = taking cash in hand for a job and not paying VAT, claiming fake expenses
tax "avoidance" that amounts to evasion = using a legal tax avoidance method contrary to how it was intended thus making it evasion e.g. Jimmy Carr loaning himself money (which does not incur IT) from his company in Jersey then the loan being written off, using UK film tax relief but not actually making a film

(borrowed from ph)

SinnSisamouth wrote:s
cameron has done nothing wrong, legally or morally...

He fucked the head of a dead pig!
Under his government, child poverty rose by half a million.

and heres 100 other things (2013) that have happened under Camerons Tory party.... http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2013/10/l ... erons.html

Tories have axed 576 Sure Start Centres (evidence)
Bankers' Bonuses rise by 64% in just 1 year (evidence)
Food Bank usage has grown by 700%+ in 3 years (evidence)
1 million are now employed on Zero-Hours Contracts (evidence)
The Disabled have suffered real term cuts of 1.7% this year in benefits (here)
52,701 firms have been declared Insolvent (Q2 2010 to Q2 2013) (evidence)
379,968 persons have been declared Insolvent (Q2 2010 to Q2 2013) (evidence)
Unemployment is 20,000+ higher today than May 2010 (evidence & here)
Private Rental Homes costs £9,084 to rent (£1,128 up from Apr 2010) (evidence & here)
Tories have axed 5,601 Nurses since May 2010 (evidence)
Council Tax rises imposed on the poor & disabled have led to 450,000 being dragged to courts since April (evidence)
1 million people have had to sell their family home to pay for Elderly Care in the last 5 years (in fairness that include 2 years of a Labour government). Cameron promised no one would have to sell their family home to pay for elderly care (evidence here)
More than 250,000 Disabled people have been forced to take place in the Work Programme unpaid (here)
Water Charges are up 20% since 1 Apr 2010 (here, here, here)
20% of Law Firms are facing bankruptcy and 500 shut in 6 months amid Legal Aid cuts (evidence)
Stamp Prices are up 46-56% since May 2010 (evidence)
Suicide Rates have climbed 8% in just 1 year reaching their highest levels since 2004 (evidence)
Number of Children in Class Sizes of more than 30 has doubled in a year (here)
Free Schools are under-subscribed but they get more money per pupil & freeze out poor kids (here, here & here)
Tories axed 5,000 Firefighters and hundreds of Fire Stations. Evidence of the impact in London alone (here)
Waiting Lists for families seeking to rent social housing have soared to record highs (evidence here)
Housing Benefit Bill has climbed to more than £20 billion as Private Landloards cash in with record rents (evidence)
The number of Cancelled Operations in our NHS have doubled and are at their worst for 8 years (evidence)
OBR predict Household Debt will grow more than £500bn this parliament thus continuing Labour's awful record of encouraging personal debt (here)
The Tories sold the Royal Mail for 50% less than it's now valued (evidence)
Gas Prices are up 31% since May 2010 (evidence)
Homelessness is up 28-34% since May 2010 (evidence & here)
Rough Sleeping in London has grown 85% since Boris Johnson became Mayor (evidence)
House Building, last year, fell to a 90 year peacetime low (evidence)
Electricity prices are up 22-39% in price since May 2010 (evidence)
The UK suffered a 97% drop in Affordable House starts in 6 months under Grant Shapps (evidence)
£12bn+ of NHS has been put up for sale under this government (evidence)
33% of NHS Walk In Centres have been axed (evidence)
Wage Growth is just 0.7% which is much lower than inflation (evidence)
Profit Tax is to be cut by 25% (from 28% to 21%) (evidence)
3.5 million now live in Child Poverty as Tory welfare cuts & sluggish wage growth bite (evidence)
800,000 more households are living in Fuel Poverty & this excludes the impact of recent price rises (evidence)
Numbers of Working Poor have doubled in 3 years & include homes with 2.2mill children (evidence)
Numbers living in temporary accommodation have grown 11.4% since Q2 2010 (here)
'The 50p rate' High Earner Tax was cut by 10% (from 50p to 45p) (evidence)
VAT Tax was hiked by 14% (from 17.5% to 20%) (evidence)
EMA was scrapped for 500,000 as drop out rates climb (evidence)
Bedroom Tax clobbered 660,000 of which 2/3rs are disabled & 1/4 single parents (evidence)
The Tories and their Lib Dem pals trebled Tuition Fees (evidence)
Record number of PFI contracts signed in the first year of a Tory government (evidence)
Bus Fares are up 22% under the Tories (here, here, here)
£5bn spent on back to work schemes that are less than 2% successful (evidence)
7,968 Hospital Beds Axed (evidence)
Rail Fares are up 27% since 2010 (here, here)
The Number of GCSE Students getting A/A* Grades has fallen by 6% since 2010 (From 22.6 to 21.3)
35,000 Police personnel have lost their jobs under the Tories (evidence)
42,000 Armed Forces personnel to lose their jobs even though £2bn went unspent (here & here)
Tories abolished Equality Impact Assessments to cover up the immorality of their policies (here)
Tories lost several court cases against NHS closures & the Risk Register (eg here)
The Tories halved a worker's right to 90 days Redundancy Notice (here)
£168m in donations raked in by Tories including £20m from Private Health (evidence)
Chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Gove to stop lying about Education (here)
Chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Hunt to stop lying about NHS Spending (here)
Chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Cameron to stop lying about Debt Reduction (here)
National Debt has risen £447 billion (evidence)
NHS Spending did not rise as promised (evidence)
NHS 'Never Events' have more than trebled (evidence)
NHS Negligence complaints lodged have increased 49% since 2010 (evidence & here)
35,000+ NHS Staff have been axed (evidence)
5,000 Firefighters have been axed (evidence)
Minimum Wage rises have been below inflation every year of Tory rule (evidence)
University Applications fell by 6% in Jan 2013 (here)
20 Treatments are no longer free on the NHS in parts of England (evidence)
10 Prisons have been axed & 4 more are to close (evidence & here)
4 Profit Making Prisons have been opened (evidence)
The Tax Gap has grown by £3bn to £35bn in the last year alone [evasion/avoidance] (evidence)
6% of Prison Cells have been cut in 1 year (evidence)
£829m cut from the Children's & Families Budget (evidence)
The percentage of A-Level Students getting A/A* has fallen 3% since 2010 (here)
Food Prices are up 19% under the Tories (evidence)
11,000 Fat Cat NHS Bosses given a 13% pay hike while nurses pay frozen (evidence)
At least a third of Ambulance Stations have been axed since 2010 (evidence)
NHS GP Funding cut by £400 million (evidence)
NHS Funding For Cancer, Stroke & Heart Patients cut by 12-26% (evidence)
A&Es waiting times at their worst for 8+ years (here)
Michael Gove overspent £1bn on Free Schools & Academies at State Schools expense (evidence)
NHS Direct was axed and replaced by a botched and fragmented NHS111 (evidence)
NHS Patient Satisfaction went from record high under Labour to record low under Tories (evidence)
Government wasted £1.4 billion on NHS Staff Redundancy Payouts (evidence)
Government axed a plan to rebuild 715 Crumbling Schools (evidence)
Just 3% of CEOs in the FTSE 350 are Women & Cameron has fueled a more Sexist tone to our politics (evidence & here)
31% of UK women have suffered Domestic Abuse and it has risen in 25% after the Tories came to power. Legal Aid cuts, police cuts & the Bedroom Tax make it harder for women to escape it (evidence & here)
Tories cut Child Benefit for middle-class families while giving tax cuts to millionaires (evidence)
Number of people Working Unpaid is at a 13 year high (evidence sheet 3)
The Government used your taxes to fund Racist Vans that drove around London warning immigrants to "Go Home". The Advertising Standards Authority has now banned them (evidence)
1.8 million workers now earn less than the National Minimum Wage (evidence)
More than 600,000 Public Sector workers have been axed (evidence sheet 4)
Job creation: There were more workers born in the UK employed in Britain in Jul-Sept 2010 than 3 years later on 30 June 2013 (sheet 8 rows 64-76)
On world disability day the Tories shut 36 Remploy Factories axed 1,000 disabled workers (here)
Job Creation: 70% of new jobs created in the UK under the Tories have gone to non-UK citizens which makes a lie of the Tory claim they've created a million new jobs (sheet 8 rows 64-76)
95 Tory Fat Cat Academy Bosses rake in more than MPs with the top 10 giving themselves £2million between them (evidence, evidence)
The Tories have Privatised Educational Services, Auditing, Consultancy and Prison Services worth £5 billion (evidence & here)
Were it not for Ed Miliband & the pressure of the UK public Cameron would have taken us to war in Syria.
Tories have Privatised 1 major NHS Hospital, have put another major hospital up for sale and have handed 12 community hospitals to profiteers (here, here & here)
Sure Start Funding has been cut by 28% as Cameron breaks his SureStart promise (evidence)

SinnSisamouth wrote:so when these ruling classes are replaced what would we call these new people in charge?

I was thinking something exotic and unusual for most politicians, maybe 'representative', 'responsible', or - and I know this is a long shot - ..'accountable'.

SinnSisamouth wrote:what would you call a ... drunk driver who killed an (many) entire (Iraqi) family,for example?

George W. Bush?










...I'll get my coat.

Jamie_Lambo wrote:

SinnSisamouth wrote:cameron has done nothing wrong, legally or morally...

Under his government, child poverty rose by half a million.
and heres 100 other things (2013) that have happened under Camerons Tory party.... http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2013/10/l ... erons.html
Tories have axed 576 Sure Start Centres (evidence)
Bankers' Bonuses rise by 64% in just 1 year (evidence)
Food Bank usage has grown by 700%+ in 3 years (evidence)
1 million are now employed on Zero-Hours Contracts (evidence)
The Disabled have suffered real term cuts of 1.7% this year in benefits (here)
52,701 firms have been declared Insolvent (Q2 2010 to Q2 2013) (evidence)
379,968 persons have been declared Insolvent (Q2 2010 to Q2 2013) (evidence)
Unemployment is 20,000+ higher today than May 2010 (evidence & here)
Private Rental Homes costs £9,084 to rent (£1,128 up from Apr 2010) (evidence & here)
Tories have axed 5,601 Nurses since May 2010 (evidence)
Council Tax rises imposed on the poor & disabled have led to 450,000 being dragged to courts since April (evidence)
1 million people have had to sell their family home to pay for Elderly Care in the last 5 years (in fairness that include 2 years of a Labour government). Cameron promised no one would have to sell their family home to pay for elderly care (evidence here)
More than 250,000 Disabled people have been forced to take place in the Work Programme unpaid (here)
Water Charges are up 20% since 1 Apr 2010 (here, here, here)
20% of Law Firms are facing bankruptcy and 500 shut in 6 months amid Legal Aid cuts (evidence)
Stamp Prices are up 46-56% since May 2010 (evidence)
Suicide Rates have climbed 8% in just 1 year reaching their highest levels since 2004 (evidence)
Number of Children in Class Sizes of more than 30 has doubled in a year (here)
Free Schools are under-subscribed but they get more money per pupil & freeze out poor kids (here, here & here)
Tories axed 5,000 Firefighters and hundreds of Fire Stations. Evidence of the impact in London alone (here)
Waiting Lists for families seeking to rent social housing have soared to record highs (evidence here)
Housing Benefit Bill has climbed to more than £20 billion as Private Landloards cash in with record rents (evidence)
The number of Cancelled Operations in our NHS have doubled and are at their worst for 8 years (evidence)
OBR predict Household Debt will grow more than £500bn this parliament thus continuing Labour's awful record of encouraging personal debt (here)
The Tories sold the Royal Mail for 50% less than it's now valued (evidence)
Gas Prices are up 31% since May 2010 (evidence)
Homelessness is up 28-34% since May 2010 (evidence & here)
Rough Sleeping in London has grown 85% since Boris Johnson became Mayor (evidence)
House Building, last year, fell to a 90 year peacetime low (evidence)
Electricity prices are up 22-39% in price since May 2010 (evidence)
The UK suffered a 97% drop in Affordable House starts in 6 months under Grant Shapps (evidence)
£12bn+ of NHS has been put up for sale under this government (evidence)
33% of NHS Walk In Centres have been axed (evidence)
Wage Growth is just 0.7% which is much lower than inflation (evidence)
Profit Tax is to be cut by 25% (from 28% to 21%) (evidence)
3.5 million now live in Child Poverty as Tory welfare cuts & sluggish wage growth bite (evidence)
800,000 more households are living in Fuel Poverty & this excludes the impact of recent price rises (evidence)
Numbers of Working Poor have doubled in 3 years & include homes with 2.2mill children (evidence)
Numbers living in temporary accommodation have grown 11.4% since Q2 2010 (here)
'The 50p rate' High Earner Tax was cut by 10% (from 50p to 45p) (evidence)
VAT Tax was hiked by 14% (from 17.5% to 20%) (evidence)
EMA was scrapped for 500,000 as drop out rates climb (evidence)
Bedroom Tax clobbered 660,000 of which 2/3rs are disabled & 1/4 single parents (evidence)
The Tories and their Lib Dem pals trebled Tuition Fees (evidence)
Record number of PFI contracts signed in the first year of a Tory government (evidence)
Bus Fares are up 22% under the Tories (here, here, here)
£5bn spent on back to work schemes that are less than 2% successful (evidence)
7,968 Hospital Beds Axed (evidence)
Rail Fares are up 27% since 2010 (here, here)
The Number of GCSE Students getting A/A* Grades has fallen by 6% since 2010 (From 22.6 to 21.3)
35,000 Police personnel have lost their jobs under the Tories (evidence)
42,000 Armed Forces personnel to lose their jobs even though £2bn went unspent (here & here)
Tories abolished Equality Impact Assessments to cover up the immorality of their policies (here)
Tories lost several court cases against NHS closures & the Risk Register (eg here)
The Tories halved a worker's right to 90 days Redundancy Notice (here)
£168m in donations raked in by Tories including £20m from Private Health (evidence)
Chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Gove to stop lying about Education (here)
Chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Hunt to stop lying about NHS Spending (here)
Chair of UK Statistics Authority tells Cameron to stop lying about Debt Reduction (here)
National Debt has risen £447 billion (evidence)
NHS Spending did not rise as promised (evidence)
NHS 'Never Events' have more than trebled (evidence)
NHS Negligence complaints lodged have increased 49% since 2010 (evidence & here)
35,000+ NHS Staff have been axed (evidence)
5,000 Firefighters have been axed (evidence)
Minimum Wage rises have been below inflation every year of Tory rule (evidence)
University Applications fell by 6% in Jan 2013 (here)
20 Treatments are no longer free on the NHS in parts of England (evidence)
10 Prisons have been axed & 4 more are to close (evidence & here)
4 Profit Making Prisons have been opened (evidence)
The Tax Gap has grown by £3bn to £35bn in the last year alone [evasion/avoidance] (evidence)
6% of Prison Cells have been cut in 1 year (evidence)
£829m cut from the Children's & Families Budget (evidence)
The percentage of A-Level Students getting A/A* has fallen 3% since 2010 (here)
Food Prices are up 19% under the Tories (evidence)
11,000 Fat Cat NHS Bosses given a 13% pay hike while nurses pay frozen (evidence)
At least a third of Ambulance Stations have been axed since 2010 (evidence)
NHS GP Funding cut by £400 million (evidence)
NHS Funding For Cancer, Stroke & Heart Patients cut by 12-26% (evidence)
A&Es waiting times at their worst for 8+ years (here)
Michael Gove overspent £1bn on Free Schools & Academies at State Schools expense (evidence)
NHS Direct was axed and replaced by a botched and fragmented NHS111 (evidence)
NHS Patient Satisfaction went from record high under Labour to record low under Tories (evidence)
Government wasted £1.4 billion on NHS Staff Redundancy Payouts (evidence)
Government axed a plan to rebuild 715 Crumbling Schools (evidence)
Just 3% of CEOs in the FTSE 350 are Women & Cameron has fueled a more Sexist tone to our politics (evidence & here)
31% of UK women have suffered Domestic Abuse and it has risen in 25% after the Tories came to power. Legal Aid cuts, police cuts & the Bedroom Tax make it harder for women to escape it (evidence & here)
Tories cut Child Benefit for middle-class families while giving tax cuts to millionaires (evidence)
Number of people Working Unpaid is at a 13 year high (evidence sheet 3)
The Government used your taxes to fund Racist Vans that drove around London warning immigrants to "Go Home". The Advertising Standards Authority has now banned them (evidence)
1.8 million workers now earn less than the National Minimum Wage (evidence)
More than 600,000 Public Sector workers have been axed (evidence sheet 4)
Job creation: There were more workers born in the UK employed in Britain in Jul-Sept 2010 than 3 years later on 30 June 2013 (sheet 8 rows 64-76)
On world disability day the Tories shut 36 Remploy Factories axed 1,000 disabled workers (here)
Job Creation: 70% of new jobs created in the UK under the Tories have gone to non-UK citizens which makes a lie of the Tory claim they've created a million new jobs (sheet 8 rows 64-76)
95 Tory Fat Cat Academy Bosses rake in more than MPs with the top 10 giving themselves £2million between them (evidence, evidence)
The Tories have Privatised Educational Services, Auditing, Consultancy and Prison Services worth £5 billion (evidence & here)
Were it not for Ed Miliband & the pressure of the UK public Cameron would have taken us to war in Syria.
Tories have Privatised 1 major NHS Hospital, have put another major hospital up for sale and have handed 12 community hospitals to profiteers (here, here & here)
Sure Start Funding has been cut by 28% as Cameron breaks his SureStart promise (evidence)

OK, Jamie, but I think SS means APART from those few things...

He shat in the Queen's hat once, too.

bring back labour