The first time WHO arrived they were refused to enter the country, to do with getting their Visas in order, now they are in the country trying to find the cause. If it was that of what some expect, being that it was that of a lab, it would surely be of interest to China. Because what they may have, or not have unleashed is certainly a monster that won't help them in the long run, by taking supreme world trade.

samrong01 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:14 pm

Phnom Poon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:46 pm

samrong01 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:03 am This whole investigation seems pointless. The virus jumped from animals to humans as viruses have done in pandemics for thousands of years. The fact that it happened in China is irrelevant - it could happen anywhere. The Spanish Flu for example is said to have originated in Kansas. It has never been established in any pandemic exactly when or how it started and this one will be no different. Whatever their findings it will happen again with another new virus at some point in the future. We can only hope that the next time it will not be accompanied by a pandemic of hysteria.

you are wrong

disease sources are often traced to a good level of confidence
spanish flu very likely originated in china, carrier to the us via canada by chinese workers
there is a 'reasonable' chance covid19 escaped from the wuhan lab

personally i now believe it's more likely than not

You have proved my point. You say that the Spanish Flu originated in China but others say it originated in Kansas. It has never been clearly established. A "level of confidence" is not the same as certainty. There is a "reasonable" chance that Covid19 originated in the Wuhan lab but it will never be established with certainty.

I think when they talk about “Wuhan”, as in arrival, they’re not talking about a “lab”. It’s a city. No one, apart from a few nutters, think it was created in a lab and escaped.

whatwat wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:11 pm No one, apart from a few nutters, think it was created in a lab and escaped.

ok, china-troll

it's about the balance of evidence

on the one hand
the closest known relative originated in bats in a cave 2000 miles away from wuhan, there was a documented outbreak
there are no bat populations in wuhan
that virus, and related virus were being researched in wuhan for possible human infectivity
usa had been funding some of the studies
the first credible documented outbreak was at the market, close to the lab
it appears at least one researcher 'disapppeared' from the lab roster in late 2019

so we have a plausible 'conspiracy' that a researcher got sick from the virus they were researching
and passed it on while shopping for dinner at the market on the way home

on the other hand
the vast majority of 'new' virus jump from animals in natural settings
but, researchers often trace the source to a surprising degree of accuracy
there is no such evidence, not even a plausible chain of circumstantial events in this case
and they at least try to trace the natural source, for obvious reasons
china do not appear to be doing so seriously, and are now even claiming the virus arrived on imported food packaging:
BBC: Wuhan marks its anniversary with triumph and denial

I could go on with more 'conspiracy' facts, but unless there is some more (or even some) new evidence on 'the other hand'
i'm personally ready to return a 'not proeven' verdict
we think you did it, we just can't prove it beyond reasonable doubt
yet

I'll float a real conspiracy prediction though
evidence will be found of zoonotic transfer from bats in battambang, in cambodia, china's chum
which helps explain why cambodia had so few cases
along with premier HE's astonishingly skillful leadership in managing the outbreak
and cambodians' strong warrior-race constitution
they have already developed some natural immunity
win-win

it probably hitched it's way to china on birds nests

Strange that virus which "apparently" came from China didn't cause a damage in Cambodia, the "23rd Chinese province " like in USA, Europe and S.America.....

My take.. at this point.

The pandemic almost certainly did start in China. not much serious argument about that.
But the origins of the virus may not be rooted in China.
Thankfully genetics is far enough advanced that we will find out most of the story.

The missing bit will be the exact place/time when crossed over to humans. (Almost certainly in Wuhan). That would have given vital information on how we can reduce the possibility of "the next one" occurring.
ie, the next virus that will cross over from animals to humans because of over-population, intensive livestock production, and the destruction of nature.
as predicted, as has happened before, and as something which has been happening with increasing frequency for the past 30 years or so.

If it was developed or modified in any way in a lab - that will be discovered with genetic tech.

If it was collected from the wild, held, and then escaped or was released by the chinese without alteration - that may not be found out for sure.
BUT enough good detective work should be able to give a pretty good indication if that was the case.

nb. This is just my reading of the ability of the scientific investigations to discover how this all came about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.c ... h-pathogen

Coronavirus: Cambodian scientists find close match for pathogen in samples collected in 2010.

With a World Health Organization investigation into the origins of the coronavirus which causes the Covid-19 disease under way in China, a laboratory in Cambodia has discovered close relatives of the pathogen in samples that have been stored in a freezer for more than a decade.

Two viruses found in the samples, taken from horseshoe bats in northeastern Cambodia in 2010 and identified in research released on Tuesday, have a 92.6 per cent similarity to SARS-CoV-2 behind the Covid-19 pandemic. That makes them the closest relatives uncovered outside China and adds new information to the investigation into where the pathogen came from. The closest known relative to the virus that causes Covid-19 is a bat virus found in southwest China’s Yunnan province, which has a 96.2 per cent similarity.

The latest discovery, by researchers at the Pasteur Institute in Cambodia in Phnom Penh, comes as the WHO-backed team is working to understand how the coronavirus began spreading in Wuhan, central China, where it was first identified in late 2019.

Viruses like SARS-CoV-2 may be more widespread than previously thought

Download PDF Copy

Sally Robertson, B.Sc.By Sally Robertson, B.Sc.Jan 28 2021

Researchers in Cambodia, France and the United States have conducted a study indicating that viruses related to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) – the agent that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) – are far more geographically widespread than previously thought.

The closest relatives to SARS-CoV-2 that have been detected to date were identified in Rhinolophus bats sampled in Yunnan province, China.

Now, Veasna Duong from the International Network of Pasteur Institutes in Phnom Penh, Cambodia and colleagues have identified two coronaviruses in Rhinolophus bats that were sampled in Cambodia.

These viruses, which were identified in archived samples from 2010, share 92.6% genomic identity with SARS-CoV-2. Some genomic sections are closer to SARS-CoV-2 than any other related viruses discovered to date.

The discovery of these viruses in a bat species not found in China indicates that SARS-CoV-2-related viruses have a much wider geographic distribution than previously understood, and suggests that Southeast Asia represents a key area to consider in the ongoing search for the origins of SARS-CoV-2, and in future surveillance for coronaviruses," writes the team.

A pre-print version of the research paper is available on the bioRxiv server, while the article undergoes peer review.

More about the close relatives identified so far

Although more than a year has passed since SARS-CoV-2 was first identified in Wuhan, China, in late 2019, information regarding the origin, reservoir, diversity, and circulation of its ancestors remains scarce.

To date, the closest relatives to SARS-CoV-2 have been detected in the Yunnan province, China. One relative – RaTG13 – was isolated from the intermediate horseshoe bat (Rhinolophus affinis) in 2013 and another – RmYN02 – was isolated from the Malayan horseshoe bat (Rhinolophus malayanus) in 2019.

Two close relatives were also identified in Sunda pangolins (Manis javanica) in two provinces of southern China.
Where does Southeast Asia come in?

The researchers point out that Southeast Asia (which lies south of China) is considered a hotspot for emerging diseases and is home to more than 25% of the world's diverse bat population.

SARS-CoV-2 is a single-stranded RNA virus belonging to the genus Betacoronavirus and the subgenus Sarbecovirus. The betacoronaviruses are one of four (alpha, beta, gamma, and delta) genera that make up the coronavirus subfamily of the coronaviridae family.

To search for putative SARS-CoV-2-like betacoronavirus, Duong and colleagues retrospectively performed pan-coronavirus polymerase chain rection (PCR) sequencing of 430 archived samples (162 oral swabs and 268 rectal swabs) taken from six bat families and two carnivorous mammal families.

Sixteen (3.72%) of the 430 samples tested positive for coronavirus, eleven of which were alphacoronaviruses, and five were betacoronaviruses.

Further sequencing of the five betacoronaviruses samples by reverse transcription-quantitative PCR (RT-qPCR) revealed that two were members of the Sarbecoviruses subgenus.

Both of these sarbecoviruses were from Shamel's horseshoe bats (Rhinolophus shameli) that were sampled in Steung Treng province of northeastern Cambodia in December 2010.

Full article and link to PDF: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... ought.aspx

lol, who'd have thought