Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by DaveG » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:06 pm

Phnom Poon wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:43 pm
DaveG wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:27 pm
i think you are quite uninformed about life in iran
BR549 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:22 pm
They were Iranian students going back to school..
This Russian made missile system did not go off by accident.
must have been intentional then!
more likely they couldn't read russian, and fucked up the settings
now they're covering up
even so, their corner looks more incompetent than evil
the other corner looks both

Im sure I am,
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/mi ... ution.html
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by Doc67 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:10 pm

Duplicate...
Last edited by Doc67 on Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by Doc67 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:11 pm

Iran admits shooting down Ukrainian airliner 'unintentionally'

So that's ok then...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... _clipboard
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by monomial » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:44 pm

Phnom Poon wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:58 am
phuketrichard wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:00 am
A mistake, BUT murder is murder.
exactly, death due to a mistake is not murder, by definition

the assassination, on the other hand, was clearly murder

the flight was apparently an hour late due to transponder problems
they possibly forget to update the take-off window on the missile system
perhaps the transponder wasn't fixed properly too
It is definitely not murder, which by law requires malice aforethought. It is however, involuntary manslaughter, and accident or not merits serious punishment. Typically, those responsible should serve time in prison. However, militaries all over the world protect their own, and I expect Iran will simply quietly sweep this one under the rug and close the investigation.

Very sad for those who lost their lives and the families who will feel the loss.
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by fazur » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:17 pm

newkidontheblock wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:15 pm
When the US makes a mistake, it will admit that it made a mistake.
Like Cuba? Like Afghanistan? Like Cambodia? Like Vietnam?
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by Doc67 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:18 pm

monomial wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:44 pm
Phnom Poon wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:58 am
phuketrichard wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:00 am
A mistake, BUT murder is murder.
exactly, death due to a mistake is not murder, by definition

the assassination, on the other hand, was clearly murder

the flight was apparently an hour late due to transponder problems
they possibly forget to update the take-off window on the missile system
perhaps the transponder wasn't fixed properly too
It is definitely not murder, which by law requires malice aforethought. It is however, involuntary manslaughter, and accident or not merits serious punishment. Typically, those responsible should serve time in prison. However, militaries all over the world protect their own, and I expect Iran will simply quietly sweep this one under the rug and close the investigation.

Very sad for those who lost their lives and the families who will feel the loss.
In English law it would be murder. It's called transferred malice.

You try to shoot someone, miss, but kill the person next to them. That's murder. The mens rea exists for the killing of one person and can be transferred to an unintended 3rd person. I suspect there iare similar rules in most other developed jurisdictions.

They intended to kill the pilot of the (non existent) hostile plane. They shot down a non hostile plane killing 176.
It's all moot anyway, nobody will face any charges.
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by ExPenhMan » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:43 pm

Here's a revealing, bare-knuckled perspective on the Iranian Islamic republic by a seasoned Canadian journalist and commentator in his own right, Evan Dyer. Yes, his father is the esteemed Gwynne Dyer, PhD in military and middle east history and commentator in international politics and security issues, and latterly, global climate change.
The regime's incompetence and indifference was evident on Tuesday morning as massive crowds gathered in Soleimani's hometown of Kerman. The government wanted the crowds to be as large and as emotional as possible. It appears that more thought was given to the design of the giant posters that overhung the event than to managing the crowds or keeping people safe.

The result was a deadly crush. About 60 people died in the stampede and more than 200 were injured.

The same reckless neglect was on display again 24 hours later, as Flight 752 fell from the sky.

It is a pattern in a country that has a record of preventable deaths on its roads, rails and in the sky.

The crash of Flight 752 is the fourteenth Iranian air crash since 2000 to have caused more than 25 fatalities.

Headline: Admitting to downing Ukraine jetliner will cost Iran regime dearly

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/iran-i ... -1.5423238
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by Phnom Poon » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:00 pm

Doc67 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:18 pm
They intended to kill the pilot of the (non existent) hostile plane.
that would very clearly be self-defense

the same as trump is claiming for the assassination that is the immediate root cause of all this

except in that case there was no imminent and immediate danger
indeed soleimani was in fact on a diplomatic mission requested/facilitated by the US themselves
so we can add 'premeditated' to that murder charge

.

monstra mihi bona!
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by DaveG » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:30 pm

Phnom Poon wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:00 pm
Doc67 wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:18 pm
They intended to kill the pilot of the (non existent) hostile plane.
that would very clearly be self-defense

the same as trump is claiming for the assassination that is the immediate root cause of all this

except in that case there was no imminent and immediate danger
indeed soleimani was in fact on a diplomatic mission requested/facilitated by the US themselves
so we can add 'premeditated' to that murder charge

Qassem Soleimani was a soldier, danger goes with that title, you have to expect that you may get shot at if you are in the military, there is a vast difference to killing innocent students on a commercial airliner.
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Re: Ukranian Plane crash - Shot down by Iran?

Post by Phnom Poon » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:39 pm

if you're at war
not so much, if you've been asked to come on diplomacy

.

monstra mihi bona!
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