Tik Tok to be banned ( maybe) in the US

HaifongWangchuck · Post by **HaifongWangchuck** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:23 am

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:16 pm For those not worried about some government getting all their personal data, they should be.

The new enhanced espionage law in mainland China as well as the requirement that all electronic device must report to the security bureau, espionage is defined by the investigators.

Chinese security bureaus exist around the world, as evidenced by 2 clandestinely found in the Netherlands (along with the beating and detention of one of it’s journalists), leading to the closing of it’s embassy branch in the west.

Shutting down bank accounts, deleting passports and driver’s licenses (all data found on cell phones) can pressure people into doing a government’s bidding.

Communists governments have no accountability. In western governments, the public media reports malfeasances.

Just my opinions, of course.

The Canadian government did this to the trucker convoy protestors in Ottawa, and not only did the media *not* report any such "malfeasances" but Canadian state media actively encouraged the government to crackdown on them, even inferring heavily that they were terrorists and that they should have their bank accounts shut on account of this.

The idea that Western media holds power accountable is risible, frankly speaking; The only time they ever do this is when there is a chance it could score points against an adversarial government. And seeing the very strong negative reaction from Western states to any backlash or protest against the genocide in Palestine, who is to say this isn't coming to a local council or government near you?

orichá · Post by **orichá** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:50 am

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:32 am Do you use tik tok ( I don't)
Do u worry about chinese having ur possible data? ( i don't)

I could care less.

.... TikTok is used 98% by kids uploading lip-synched musical montages. The notion it could be used to steal data is pretty out there and irrelevant. The NSA can monitor every phone call made everyday in the US from every person A to B and note their numbers, and they can read any email they want.

So, there is no privacy. Everyone already knows I'm a sick, depraved pervert, an ex-con and a nudist.

Who cares about TikTok? Does the pope, Prince Charles or the murderer Putin?

Huawei got banned in the USA, not because they were a security threat, but because the Americans wanted to protect their fragile Apple iPhone market, and Cisco and Oracle, etc, etc...

Just wait till Trumpone places a tarrif on everything imported. LoL... Then you're gonna see plenty of homeless. Defaults, foreclosures, blah, blah!

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:58 am

Who cares about TikTok?

seems allot of people use it and i assume care..
Out of 5.3 billion internet users worldwide, 23% use TikTok. Out of 4.95 billion active social media users, 24.65% use TikTok

many make their living off of tik tok

xandreu · Post by **xandreu** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:43 am

The issue with Tik-Tok is two-fold, according to the recent senate social media hearings where they summoned the CEO's of the main social media platforms to testify.

The first is that Tik-Tok, having a Chinese parent company, is compelled under Chinese law to share data with the CCP. Even if they didn't want to, they don't have a choice. It's Chinese law.

The second is that there is a presumption that Tik-Tok is being used by the CCP to 'dumb down' western teenagers. Whilst Tik-Tok doesn't exist in China, they do have a similar platform, but on that, children are encouraged to do well in school, keep fit, eat healthily, take care of your family etc., and it is generally used to promote positivity and what it is to be a good citizen.

Whereas the western version is all about who can be the biggest idiot. The types of videos that rise to the top of people's feeds are the total opposite of what Chinese teenagers see. They are all about wasting your time learning stupid dance moves, playing computer games, being disruptive members of society, adding some kind of 'shock' value to your videos, and basically promoting 'dumbness' as a positive trait, being anti-authority, and just generally being a social PITA.

The hearing gave many, many examples of how biased the Tik-Tok algorithm is. I don't remember the specifics, but it was eye-opening and the Singaporean CEO struggled to justify the examples that the senate put before him.

The fact that Tik-Tok shares its users data with the CCP is only a small part of why Tik-Tok is in the line of sight of the US government. But then again, I don't think the other social media platforms are that far behind in terms of the negative impact their content has on society.

Post by **Freightdog** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:54 pm

There is quite a lot of dis-information spread on Tik-Tok, too. It’s easy to gloss over it due to the majority of content being just garbage.

The dumbing down aspect? Well, the floodgates for that started with the internet being available to all, then in the likes of Facebook. So we’ve only ourselves to blame, sadly. The result is an audience pre-disposed to just lapping it up if it’s visually stimulating. Why even read anything on any subject when you can get your next opinion dressed up in some appealing short video along with all your other entertainment? The genie was let loose. Controlling the fallout is playing catch-up.

Increasing my concern is that Tik-Tok content gets into my Youtube play-next video list. There are a few serious Aviation related contributors that I follow, but interspersed are tik-tok videos on vaguely related topics. The TikTok stuff being just garbage, though far quicker to ingest if you’re not being selective in your sources and don’t want to bother with long words.
But then it also finds it’s way into my son’s viewing preferences.

Ong Tay · Post by **Ong Tay** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:35 pm

Let's not overlook that 43% of American adult users of TikTok say that they get their news on the platform...

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... in%202022.

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:15 pm

orichá wrote:
phuketrichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:32 am Do you use tik tok ( I don't)
Do u worry about chinese having ur possible data? ( i don't)
I could care less.

.... TikTok is used 98% by kids uploading lip-synched musical montages. The notion it could be used to steal data is pretty out there and irrelevant. The NSA can monitor every phone call made everyday in the US from every person A to B and note their numbers, and they can read any email they want.

So, there is no privacy. Everyone already knows I'm a sick, depraved pervert, an ex-con and a nudist.

Who cares about TikTok? Does the pope, Prince Charles or the murderer Putin?

Huawei got banned in the USA, not because they were a security threat, but because the Americans wanted to protect their fragile Apple iPhone market, and Cisco and Oracle, etc, etc...

Just wait till Trumpone places a tarrif on everything imported. LoL... Then you're gonna see plenty of homeless. Defaults, foreclosures, blah, blah!

The US has a massive internal market, the largest in the world. China is an export driven (primarily to the US and the West). South Korea learned about the dangers about being export driven with a near death experience in the 2000’s and developed a massive internal economy that weathered the next Asian recession. The decoupling from mainland China has already begun led by Xi.

And it’s hurting mainland China. There are no jobs. (Unless it’s military). Homeless on the streets. Foreclosures a plenty. Lots of companies closing shops and the bosses running away. Former Alibaba execs are now delivery drivers. Mainland Chinese are illegally crossing the US southern border to escape starvation. Rich ones are taking trips to the West and bringing their cash (one was stopped carrying $250,000) with them. The US embassy has long lines of Chinese waiting for visas.

Mainland Chinese apps are designed (per law by the government) to root out all information on any device that it is installed on. You happen to have a distant relative who works in General Dynamics? Now they know where they live, their children, etc. and to blackmail you to gain influence over them. Just threaten to digitally wipe away your Thai visa and bank accounts. They’ve already hacked all the major Thai government institutions.

NSA might read, but wrings it hands (over privacy and personal rights) on acting. Plenty of instances (in hindsight) where it should have acted but didn’t. Chinese government is officially a wolf warrior. It will act on anything perceived to gain an advantage. Mainland Chinese University students studying in the US (and probably other Western countries) have to pledge loyalty to the party and told to steal information (with their families in China punished if they don’t do it).

Apple, CISCO, and Oracle all sell (or try to sell) in China and compete with Huawei. Apple iPhone has fallen from the top luxury smartphone spot in China to Huawei and has resorted to official price cuts in China to compete.

Sorry for such a long response. My opinions as always.

HaifongWangchuck · Post by **HaifongWangchuck** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:02 pm

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:15 pm
orichá wrote:
phuketrichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:32 am Do you use tik tok ( I don't)
Do u worry about chinese having ur possible data? ( i don't)

And it’s hurting mainland China. There are no jobs. (Unless it’s military). Homeless on the streets. Foreclosures a plenty. Lots of companies closing shops and the bosses running away. Former Alibaba execs are now delivery drivers. Mainland Chinese are illegally crossing the US southern border to escape starvation. Rich ones are taking trips to the West and bringing their cash (one was stopped carrying $250,000) with them. The US embassy has long lines of Chinese waiting for visas.

Mainland Chinese apps are designed (per law by the government) to root out all information on any device that it is installed on. You happen to have a distant relative who works in General Dynamics? Now they know where they live, their children, etc. and to blackmail you to gain influence over them. Just threaten to digitally wipe away your Thai visa and bank accounts. They’ve already hacked all the major Thai government institutions.

All of this applies just as well to America and Facebook (hellp Prism) , respectively (except the starvation part: as many people in America are starving in mainland China).

I'm not entirely convinced a world with China at the helm would be much different than a world with the US in the driver seat, except far less mandatory Holocaust education and Drag Time Story Hours.

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:12 pm

HaifongWangchuck wrote:
newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:15 pm
orichá wrote:
phuketrichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:32 am Do you use tik tok ( I don't)
Do u worry about chinese having ur possible data? ( i don't)

And it’s hurting mainland China. There are no jobs. (Unless it’s military). Homeless on the streets. Foreclosures a plenty. Lots of companies closing shops and the bosses running away. Former Alibaba execs are now delivery drivers. Mainland Chinese are illegally crossing the US southern border to escape starvation. Rich ones are taking trips to the West and bringing their cash (one was stopped carrying $250,000) with them. The US embassy has long lines of Chinese waiting for visas.

Mainland Chinese apps are designed (per law by the government) to root out all information on any device that it is installed on. You happen to have a distant relative who works in General Dynamics? Now they know where they live, their children, etc. and to blackmail you to gain influence over them. Just threaten to digitally wipe away your Thai visa and bank accounts. They’ve already hacked all the major Thai government institutions.

All of this applies just as well to America and Facebook (hellp Prism) , respectively (except the starvation part: as many people in America are starving in mainland China).

I'm not entirely convinced a world with China at the helm would be much different than a world with the US in the driver seat, except far less mandatory Holocaust education and Drag Time Story Hours.
Seriously? Most data in China is secret. Foreigner corporate businessmen have been imprisoned for having such data under the espionage act.

But the last official youth unemployment data is 20% (before they stopped official reporting).

“According to Yahoo Finance, China's homeless population in 2024 is 2,579,000. However, according to The Borgen Project, China's homeless population is 300 million, which is more than 20% of the population.”

“In 2022, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) counted around 582,000 Americans experiencing homelessness. This is about 18 per 10,000 people in the US, up about 2,000 people from 2020”

Hunger.

“In 2023, global hunger index for China was 5 index. Though China global hunger index fluctuated substantially in recent years, it tended to decrease through 2003 - 2023 period ending at 5 index in 2023.”

“According to 2019 data by Our World in Data, the U.S. has a comparable food insecurity rate to other developed nations, but higher than some, including Germany, France, Austria, and the United Kingdom. “

And the world with mainland China at the helm? The US believes in rules and laws, largely backing the UN. China believes in bending the UN (and the world to its will), barring that, ignoring the UN and following the ‘wolf warrior’ strategy. Everyone (to the mainland China government) is someone to be taken advantage of.

Please keep believing that the world would immensely better with Xi’s benevolence.

Sorry for the long reply. My opinions as always.

HaifongWangchuck · Post by **HaifongWangchuck** » Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:13 am

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:12 pm ]

Seriously? Most data in China is secret. Foreigner corporate businessmen have been imprisoned for having such data under the espionage act.

And the US has imprisoned people under similarly flimsy circumstances (they still haven't entirely explained how the former Huawei chief committed espionage for example), so again I'm not sure things would be that different, especially since many Americans fearmonger about Chinese and Russians kidnapping, when they are the world experts at it--just ask Mr Assange.

But the last official youth unemployment data is 20% (before they stopped official reporting).

“According to Yahoo Finance, China's homeless population in 2024 is 2,579,000. However, according to The Borgen Project, China's homeless population is 300 million, which is more than 20% of the population.”

Which begs the question: If Data is so secret secret, why is it that a US State Department cutout organisation has access to this data? Would this US propaganda mill really have a better idea of poverty in China than say, the UNDB? Can we assume this is the same "intelligence" source as that which predicted Russia's imminent economic collapse? Or the Taliban being "months" away from Kabul's door?

“In 2022, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) counted around 582,000 Americans experiencing homelessness. This is about 18 per 10,000 people in the US, up about 2,000 people from 2020”

If you assume the Chinese are fudging figures, why so willingly trust the United States? Look at how they lie about being in recession, or the true impact of inflation.

Hunger.

“In 2023, global hunger index for China was 5 index. Though China global hunger index fluctuated substantially in recent years, it tended to decrease through 2003 - 2023 period ending at 5 index in 2023.”

“According to 2019 data by Our World in Data, the U.S. has a comparable food insecurity rate to other developed nations, but higher than some, including Germany, France, Austria, and the United Kingdom. “

According to The Guardian, 17% of all Britons are facing hunger and cannot afford food. If the US has "higher" food insecurity than that, then what is the real rate?

And the world with mainland China at the helm? The US believes in rules and laws, largely backing the UN.

The people of Palestine, Bahrain, and Iraq would vehemently disagree; Hell, there are people in my village who are old enougj to remember the US bombing campaign over Cambodia that killed as much as half a million people. What law or rule protected them from the predatory Americans?

China believes in bending the UN (and the world to its will), barring that, ignoring the UN and following the ‘wolf warrior’ strategy. Everyone (to the mainland China government) is someone to be taken advantage of.

This ironically sounds more like the US, since even China doesn't have a law calling for a military invasion of the Hague should a war criminal like John Bolton ever be sent down, because China doesn't behave like a rogue state, does it?

Please keep believing that the world would immensely better with Xi’s benevolence.

Sorry for the long reply. My opinions as always.

We agree to disagree, and politely we do so. Nonetheless, I continue to be thankful that I'm alive in a time of waning US influence, since from the bottom of my heart I truly believe it will lead to a safer, more prosperous world in the long run.

Tik Tok to be banned ( maybe) in the US

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