Self defence or not... you be the judge

Yeah, that place out 'there'. Anything not really Cambodia related should go here.
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Kammekor
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Kammekor »

Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:07 pm
a perfect example of abuse of statistics.
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Mishmash »

Kammekor wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:43 pm
Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:07 pm
a perfect example of abuse of statistics.
In what way specifically? :hattip:

Please can you find a contrary graph... i am genuinely interested.
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

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Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:32 pm
Anthony's Weiner wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:21 pm The video was provided by the store owner to back up his claim of self-defence. If someone were to attack me and my life was in danger, I should have the right to use lethal force to end the confrontation. I am not a gun owner but have empathy for someone who kills an intruder into their home and would not convict them of murder.

The store owner was charged with aggravated assault, not attempted murder. From the video, which he claims as his defence, I see no justification for raking the assailant's car with an AK47. My question was not should civilians be allowed weapons of war, but was the shooting justified and should the charge of aggravated assault be dismissed?

As my above rant, we have no video showing the victim's point of view bro.. whether he was armed or presenting a danger. All i see are a few grainy vids.

Insufficient evidence really bro but a great pot-stirring thread you posted.

As an aside - civilians own self-defence weapons not 'weapons of war', and even then in most of the world firearm permits are not granted for 'self-defence' but for other reasons (even if they are actually bought with that purpose in mind) - you can check gun-laws by country for a breakdown.
Ahmad told police that a customer entered the store and began making verbal threats. It was in relation to a fight that occurred earlier in the day where the store's employees beat up a friend of the customer, the report says.

Ahmad grabbed his handgun and asked the customer to leave. The customer left, but continued to make threats outside, the report says.

The surveillance video shows Ahmad and an employee holding their handguns outside the store before Ahmad runs back inside and returns with the AK-47, firing it.

Ahmad said he fired the weapon because the customer was shooting at him from his car, the report says.

Police say they obtained the surveillance footage and determined Ahmad's testimony was false.

The customer was never in possession of a weapon and did not appear to be an immediate threat to Ahmad, according to the report.

But, Rier says Ahmad was protecting the store and his employees.

"He's trying to save lives, not end it."

Ahmad is facing one charge of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Sur ... 45701.html


An angry man barged into the Kwik Pic convenience store in Lauderhill, left it in a huff and threw a garbage can at the front door, scattering trash on the floor. Then, he drove in circles outside the market and hurled a bottle at employees standing in the doorway.

The response: Store owner Saf Ahmad, 30, stormed out of the store and fired a hail of bullets from an AK-47 — all caught on dramatic surveillance video.

So was it self-defense? A Broward circuit judge will soon decide whether Ahmad was justified in shooting at Jason Morris, who was hit in the back and suffered a “permanent disability.”

Police detectives say Morris was unarmed and “appeared to be no immediate threat to Saf Ahmad nor his employees who were standing in the doorway of the business.” But Ahmad’s lawyers say Ahmad believed the bottle was a “possible grenade or similar device” and thought Morris had grabbed a gun in an “attempt to then fire at him.”
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 98017.html

The miami herald has 2 minutes of video
Jerry Atrick
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Jerry Atrick »

I think Cambodia may be the only country I've lived in where I cannot legally own a gun.

If I could, I would.

As for the op; it doesn't look like self defense. Looks more like Florida madness.
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Kammekor
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Kammekor »

Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:48 pm
Kammekor wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:43 pm
Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:07 pm
a perfect example of abuse of statistics.
In what way specifically? :hattip:

Please can you find a contrary graph... i am genuinely interested.
OK, the easiest one: about 95 countries missing.

It's 'studies' like this coming up with the conclusion 'drinking wine will help prevent liver cancer' .
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Mishmash »

Hot Off the Press - breaking

Knife-Wielding Man Attacks Indonesian Security Minister


Ban all knives and forks (and spoons for good measure) along with ropes (greater than 3cm in length) and stones (all stones must be ground into sand and then bagged just in case of intentional blinding with the sand)

Hell - ban moving outside a padded cell without a permit.
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Mishmash »

Kammekor wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:58 pm
Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:48 pm
Kammekor wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:43 pm
Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:07 pm
a perfect example of abuse of statistics.
In what way specifically? :hattip:

Please can you find a contrary graph... i am genuinely interested.
OK, the easiest one: about 95 countries missing.

It's 'studies' like this coming up with the conclusion 'drinking wine will help prevent liver cancer' .
Re: wine drinking - Strawman arguments do not count.

The table I have has 174 countries - some countries obviously have little or no data - however the conclusions by 1000's of studies over the last 20 years is there is no correlation except at the higher and lower extremes.

i DID provide a list of sources above so you are welcome to examine them one by one, contact the authors and take it up with them.

For me personally i am happy if i am armed and no-one else is :beer3:
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Kammekor
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Kammekor »

Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:59 pm Hot Off the Press - breaking

Knife-Wielding Man Attacks Indonesian Security Minister


Ban all knives and forks (and spoons for good measure) along with ropes (greater than 3cm in length) and stones (all stones must be ground into sand and then bagged just in case of intentional blinding with the sand)

Hell - ban moving outside a padded cell without a permit.
I suggest chopping off all hands too, and after that the executioner is the king of a peaceful world.
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Mishmash »

Anthony's Weiner wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:49 pm
Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:32 pm
Anthony's Weiner wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:21 pm The video was provided by the store owner to back up his claim of self-defence. If someone were to attack me and my life was in danger, I should have the right to use lethal force to end the confrontation. I am not a gun owner but have empathy for someone who kills an intruder into their home and would not convict them of murder.

The store owner was charged with aggravated assault, not attempted murder. From the video, which he claims as his defence, I see no justification for raking the assailant's car with an AK47. My question was not should civilians be allowed weapons of war, but was the shooting justified and should the charge of aggravated assault be dismissed?

As my above rant, we have no video showing the victim's point of view bro.. whether he was armed or presenting a danger. All i see are a few grainy vids.

Insufficient evidence really bro but a great pot-stirring thread you posted.

As an aside - civilians own self-defence weapons not 'weapons of war', and even then in most of the world firearm permits are not granted for 'self-defence' but for other reasons (even if they are actually bought with that purpose in mind) - you can check gun-laws by country for a breakdown.
Ahmad told police that a customer entered the store and began making verbal threats. It was in relation to a fight that occurred earlier in the day where the store's employees beat up a friend of the customer, the report says.

Ahmad grabbed his handgun and asked the customer to leave. The customer left, but continued to make threats outside, the report says.

The surveillance video shows Ahmad and an employee holding their handguns outside the store before Ahmad runs back inside and returns with the AK-47, firing it.

Ahmad said he fired the weapon because the customer was shooting at him from his car, the report says.

Police say they obtained the surveillance footage and determined Ahmad's testimony was false.

The customer was never in possession of a weapon and did not appear to be an immediate threat to Ahmad, according to the report.

But, Rier says Ahmad was protecting the store and his employees.

"He's trying to save lives, not end it."

Ahmad is facing one charge of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Sur ... 45701.html


An angry man barged into the Kwik Pic convenience store in Lauderhill, left it in a huff and threw a garbage can at the front door, scattering trash on the floor. Then, he drove in circles outside the market and hurled a bottle at employees standing in the doorway.

The response: Store owner Saf Ahmad, 30, stormed out of the store and fired a hail of bullets from an AK-47 — all caught on dramatic surveillance video.

So was it self-defense? A Broward circuit judge will soon decide whether Ahmad was justified in shooting at Jason Morris, who was hit in the back and suffered a “permanent disability.”

Police detectives say Morris was unarmed and “appeared to be no immediate threat to Saf Ahmad nor his employees who were standing in the doorway of the business.” But Ahmad’s lawyers say Ahmad believed the bottle was a “possible grenade or similar device” and thought Morris had grabbed a gun in an “attempt to then fire at him.”
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 98017.html

The miami herald has 2 minutes of video
Aggravated battery it is then!!!!
Mishmash
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Mishmash »

Kammekor wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:06 pm
Mishmash wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:59 pm Hot Off the Press - breaking

Knife-Wielding Man Attacks Indonesian Security Minister


Ban all knives and forks (and spoons for good measure) along with ropes (greater than 3cm in length) and stones (all stones must be ground into sand and then bagged just in case of intentional blinding with the sand)

Hell - ban moving outside a padded cell without a permit.
I suggest chopping off all hands too, and after that the executioner is the king of a peaceful world.
Don't forget to gouge the eyeballs as 'looks can kill'
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