Self defence or not... you be the judge

Yeah, that place out 'there'. Anything not really Cambodia related should go here.
Mishmash
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Mishmash »

@SternAAlbifrons @AndyKK @Ravensnest

I see mention of statistics and personal opinions, so I ask your time to examine the facts... Source UNODC

Countries with low gun ownership % experience high % of intentional firearm homicides (Top is the Honduras with 91.6 homicides per 100,000 and a gun ownership of 6%)

Conversely, countries with high gun ownership % experience low % of intentional homicide rates (Iceland is top with 0.3 homicides per 100,000 yet 1 in 3 people own a firearm, France is 1.1 with again around 30% of people owning a firearm)

There are anomalies in some of the countries but the trend holds....

The US has 4.2 homicides per 100k - yet a massive 112% gun ownership rate

The death count so popularly used for the US (12,996 per year) is due to its large population.

More people get killed in Brazil for example (40,974) with 8% gun ownership or even worse is Indonesia (18,963) where only 0.5% of people own guns.

So all in all, there is definite correlation that private legal ownership of firearms by law abiding citizens makes life safer.

If you tabulate the statistics (ownership vs homicides) you will find that the US Ranks the 13th safest...

All the countries safer than the US have ownership rates ranging from 22% to 58%

The worst 18 countries all have ownership of 0.4% to 1.4%


For the record Cambodia ranks 78th and in comparison you are 20 times less safe than the US

I can send you the table if you need the hard data...
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SternAAlbifrons
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by SternAAlbifrons »

Yes please Mish, ^^^
source and detailed data please, including definitions and methodology - of this meaningless rubbish.

(you do realise you are going to get mercilessly slaughtered in the stats game i hope.
:-D :-D :-D.
I admire your reckless courage.
...and remember, you drew first)
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SternAAlbifrons
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by SternAAlbifrons »

SternAAlbifrons wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:47 am Yes please Mish, ^^^
source and detailed data please, including definitions and methodology - of this meaningless rubbish.

(you do realise you are going to get mercilessly slaughtered in the stats game i hope.
:-D :-D :-D.
I admire your reckless courage.
...and remember, you drew first)
PS Somebody made a big mistake when compiling your table, Mish.
Indonesia has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.
Famous for it.
The reason most cited by ALL the experts is the extremely low levels of gun ownership.
(plus other factors related to Islam generally being a religion of peace when practiced by non-Arabs)

If anything, the statistics you employ actually highlight just how dangerous gun owners are, as a group.
They account for a disproportionally huge percentage of the murders that do occur in Indonesia.
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Anthony's Weiner »

Japan with its 3 gun homicides and 22 gun-related crimes in 2017 has a gun ownership rate of 0.3%, kind of refutes the argument that low ownership rates make a country more dangerous. The Central American countries are plagued by gangs, drugs and poverty. Cuba has a gun ownership rate of 2% and a gun homicide rate of 0.5 per 100,000 inhabitants.

Comparing American Homicide rates to Brazil, Nicaragua or other third world countries is a lark, just like comparing literacy rates would be. America compared to the "civilized western" world is by far the leader in gun-related deaths.

The shooting victim in the video was an ass, belligerent and confrontational, but he had left the shop and was in his car when the shop owner opened up with an AK47. In my opinion, shooting someone in the back from 50 ft away can hardly be considered self-defence. Property damage is not a crime that capital punishment is the penalty for.
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by jd1965 »

andy1 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:45 am Trying to educate yanks about the dangers of guns in scociety,is like teaching a toddler not to touch something.
+1
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by jd1965 »

Anthony's Weiner wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:15 am Japan with its 3 gun homicides and 22 gun-related crimes in 2017 has a gun ownership rate of 0.3%, kind of refutes the argument that low ownership rates make a country more dangerous. The Central American countries are plagued by gangs, drugs and poverty. Cuba has a gun ownership rate of 2% and a gun homicide rate of 0.5 per 100,000 inhabitants.

Comparing American Homicide rates to Brazil, Nicaragua or other third world countries is a lark, just like comparing literacy rates would be. America compared to the "civilized western" world is by far the leader in gun-related deaths.

The shooting victim in the video was an ass, belligerent and confrontational, but he had left the shop and was in his car when the shop owner opened up with an AK47. In my opinion, shooting someone in the back from 50 ft away can hardly be considered self-defence. Property damage is not a crime that capital punishment is the penalty for.
+2
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Brody »

jd1965 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:17 am
andy1 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:45 am Trying to educate yanks about the dangers of guns in scociety,is like teaching a toddler not to touch something.
+1
A couple of outstanding (albeit predictable) contributions to the discussion.

I was wondering at what point the thread would devolve into "yank" bashing.

It actually didn't happen as soon as I thought it would....well done. :thumb:
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Anthony's Weiner »

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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Doc67 »

Brody wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:21 am
jd1965 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:17 am
andy1 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:45 am Trying to educate yanks about the dangers of guns in scociety,is like teaching a toddler not to touch something.
+1
A couple of outstanding (albeit predictable) contributions to the discussion.

I was wondering at what point the thread would devolve into "yank" bashing.

It actually didn't happen as soon as I thought it would....well done. :thumb:
How long before Donald Trumps gets the blame?
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Re: Self defence or not... you be the judge

Post by Kammekor »

Doc67 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:42 am
Brody wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:21 am
jd1965 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:17 am
andy1 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:45 am Trying to educate yanks about the dangers of guns in scociety,is like teaching a toddler not to touch something.
+1
A couple of outstanding (albeit predictable) contributions to the discussion.

I was wondering at what point the thread would devolve into "yank" bashing.

It actually didn't happen as soon as I thought it would....well done. :thumb:
How long before Donald Trumps gets the blame?
Well... The AK47 shooter and purple dressed lady both look like Trump voters to me... :stir:
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