Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by OrangeDragon » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:09 am

vladimir wrote:LOL, I used to work with a self-confessed modest genius who came up with these brilliant statements:
I'll just add

4. 'America only gets bashed because it's fashionable'(I won't ask WHY, even if that were true) and
5. Guns are always good

To that illustrious list.
#4:
I'd link you to the papers on the subject and the evidence, but since based on previous experience in this thread you prefer your belief structure over being bothered to read them I won't bother. Meanwhile our country with a "failing government" just climbed it's GDP another trillion dollars.

#5: Guns aren't always good. There are certainly people who shouldn't have them... like sociopaths. Getting them out of their hands would be great. A quixotic idealist mission... but we've already established that you believe happy wishes and good intentions will make the world bend to their will.

As for informing the media sources... perhaps you should first inform them that Angkor Wat is in Cambodia instead of Thailand... because they'd never make a mistake!

Though these seem to all be calling it Islamic:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /11702819/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... phate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd wager there are others.
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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by The Add Jay » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:33 am

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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by taranis » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:15 am

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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by Soi Dog » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:32 am

taranis wrote: Better still, build a wall around the Islamic world and let them fight it out among themselves. And we can all sit back, watch and socialise with women without veils.
I agree with staying out of that regions problems in general (and have since Reagan disastrously tried to intervene in Lebanon in 1982), but as some groups continue to try to commit terrorist acts across the globe, at some point you are forced to intervene. How many more Mumbai-style attacks will India allow before taking more direct military action against Pakistan for allowing Lashkar safe haven? The same goes for another 9/11 or 7/7 type attack. The craziest of crazies now have safe haven in large swatches of Iraq and Syria and lots of money and fancy new weaponry. Will Jordan and Lebanon fall victim to the likes of ISIS as well? If so, can a horrific attack against Israel be far away shortly after? Can the West stay out of that larger conflict?
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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by vladimir » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:59 am

Agree 100%, Soi Dog, but these people didn't always want to nuke America, they learned it from interference. Perhaps now it has got to the stage where whatever they do in terms of military action, it will only fuel (pun) the fire.

I won't even start on the illegality of the State of Israel, and how much it damaged the world's view of Jews.

If fighting won't change things, perhaps it's time to consider a different approach?
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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by OrangeDragon » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:35 am

vladimir wrote: If fighting won't change things, perhaps it's time to consider a different approach?
Why do you say it hasn't changed things?

Quality of life is rapidly improving in Afghanistan with increases in school enrolment, decreases in poverty, and when given a poll the population responding to the question "Do you feel security is a reason for optimism?" responded with a 13% increase from 2006 to 2009.

Iraq on the other hand has been falling into mass corruption and infighting, likely because there was massive pressure from pretty much everywhere to pull US troops out quick and it was done before the new system could be well established with oversight. The result was the equivalent of taking a dozen monkeys born and raised in a lab and dumping them in the jungle and expecting them to know what to do there.
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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by Satiated Parrot » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:27 am

OD has a point. People claimed the U.S. didn't try and establish democracy in Iraq, but then complained that they were there!

History is full of mistakes based on 'international pressure'. The British pushed Zimbabwe to appoint Mugabe instead of the other contender who was an archbishop. Look how that turned out.

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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by The Add Jay » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:11 pm

Soi Dog wrote:
taranis wrote: Better still, build a wall around the Islamic world and let them fight it out among themselves. And we can all sit back, watch and socialise with women without veils.
I agree with staying out of that regions problems in general (and have since Reagan disastrously tried to intervene in Lebanon in 1982), but as some groups continue to try to commit terrorist acts across the globe, at some point you are forced to intervene. How many more Mumbai-style attacks will India allow before taking more direct military action against Pakistan for allowing Lashkar safe haven? The same goes for another 9/11 or 7/7 type attack. The craziest of crazies now have safe haven in large swatches of Iraq and Syria and lots of money and fancy new weaponry. Will Jordan and Lebanon fall victim to the likes of ISIS as well? If so, can a horrific attack against Israel be far away shortly after? Can the West stay out of that larger conflict?

Ahh so its Reagan's fault! fucking white rich repubs. Not Carter in handling Iran....Noooo. Never. Lmfao

Mumbai attack? The attackers were yes muslims but pretty agnostic. They did it cause they were dirt poor and wanted to get paid. When the one guy was captured they asked him to recite parts of the peaceful book he had no idea wtf they were talking about. My 1 india friend who lives here in P.P survived the attack. He gave me a long shpeel about what happened that day. Pretty intense action.

Im just tired of Israel saying any day now its coming. And by the looks of it....it might come soon with this pandering to Palestine. It should be noted that the Palestinians are reproducing like jack rabbits and putting a heavy strain on their own resources and blaming the jews.

Both sides are wrong as far as I'm concern...some of the most evil americans are jews http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kunstler" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

The biggest controllers of the ACLU are jews. I grew up around jews...not Isrealies which are TOTALLY DIFFERENT then American Jews. We make jokes about them....there "entitlement" mentality. Example...they will drive just like a khmer in a Lexux XXL truck but not because hes king shit...but because "My Taxes paid for this road so Im entitled to drive where I want when I want". They can be serious assholes when you roll through there villages. But surprisingly...and dig this....Jews and Blacks get along in total Harmony. The NYPD finds this to be a Phenomenon. There share the same villages and walk the streets hand in hand because other villages in NY dont want either around. So they get stuck together. Only time it was a problem when Al Sharpton fucked everything up during the Crown Heights Riot.

My babysitter was a holocaust survive...sweet lady. Her name was Selma...smoked like a chimney. Long dead now.

There influence in NY is second to none...our way of speaking is an off shoot from them...our taste in food. Its amazing thinking about it right now. Dont get me started in Chinese food and the jews.

Anyway...enough of the ranting. What I find shameful is ISIS driving around in Ford Pick up Trucks and Humvee's. So the U.S is sending money and supplies to both ISIS AND the Iraq army? Talk about making $$$. Why not send in some drones like Yemen? I dont understand this foreign policy anymore. U.S is controlled by fanatical left wing university professors. Look at Samantha Powers...her hair alone screams "Im a whacked out unfuckable commie so I will make everyone else feel my sexual fustriatedness"

Its just kinda sad my first mixed race President's political philosophy is closer to Pol Pots then it is to George Washingtons. SMH.
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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by vladimir » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:24 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:
vladimir wrote: If fighting won't change things, perhaps it's time to consider a different approach?
Why do you say it hasn't changed things?
It hasn't changed the hostility towards the US.

It may have had some results in Afghanistan, but that's not the only country involved. In fact, I would go so far as to say that perhaps Afghanistan is the ONLY positive result, and then only in the areas you quoted.

And there are millions of people in Afghanistan that feel that the whole thing was a failure, and the positive results you quote were only suspended or delayed by US intervention, that in fact if they had never gone in it would be even better now.

But, you are deflecting. I am talking about the approach in general and results in general.

The approach is not successful. only a fool would not realise that and consider any alternative that might bring a better result.

You cannot force people to like you, or do things the way you want them done, and bombing them doesn't fix that, although it does make certain people richer. You found that out in Vietnam, why do you choose not to see it now?
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Re: Quite an "about-face" over Iraq

Post by OrangeDragon » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:53 am

You keep failing to define "success". With the middle east I really thing the GOAL is to keep them politically unstable. There's very little good that would come from a unified middle east run by extremists (who are inevitably the ones who will rise to power in that kind of an atmosphere). The US never really implied that it wanted them to like it... only to be too disorganized to do anything substantial ABOUT that dislike. In which case it's a grand success.
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