Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

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clutchcargo
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Re: Coronavirus lock down needs an end game plan

Post by clutchcargo »

explorer wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:41 am If you look at what is happening with Coronavirus lock downs in most of the countries in the world, there is no end game plan. It is just an experiment to see how long people will put up with leaders putting unreasonable restrictions on them. This could go on for years. Any smart leader should have an end game plan. Like after a certain amount of time we return to normal. People will start ignoring the rules, and doing what they want. When enough people have had enough, the leaders will have to follow the will of the people. The sooner the people speak up, the better.
What do you mean there was no end game plan? I thought it was pretty clear or maybe some have lost sight of it but it was to buy time for us to develop a vaccine and anti-virals without overloading hospitals, contain the growth of the virus and minimise deaths.

Political conspiracy theory aside, expectations where leaders are to provide a definite end date 'Like after a certain amount of time we return to normal' I think is delusional. Clearly, there are many unknown factors still to determine like the development of vaccines and anti-virals bearing in mind there's no guarantee one can be developed with an efficacy rate greater than 50% (note: not necessarily 80/90%). Even if one can be delivered, then there is the issue of supply. And, there is still no conclusive understanding of how long people retain immunity after infection or application of vaccine. so that might mean ongoing repeat vaccine doses. Nevertheless people are changing the ways they interact with each other.

Also, the notion that 'things will return to normal' I think is also delusional. I believe the effects of this will last for a very long time for the reasons mentioned and there is no silver bullet. Society will need to adapt to the fact that in all likelihood it will never be eradicated and will be with us on an ongoing basis.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by hunter8 »

Apart from a few nutcases, many governments in the world are slowly regaining sanity and begin to understand that the efficiency of lockdowns is very low and harmfulness is very high, this measure being extremely incommensurate with the level of danger. This realization is prompting them to open economies. Some of them would like to open quickly but that would make them look very incompetent and urge populations to ask too many questions, so they are trying to make it look like they always knew what they were doing.

There are groups with vested interests who insist on more restrictive measures but they are not the only ones that governments now listen to, which wasn’t the case a few months ago when these groups were in complete command.

It is counterproductive to search for conspiracy when the mess-up can be perfectly explained by incompetence. In this case, the incompetence was in listening only to one side and taking a very skewed viewpoint a few months ago. Any gross misbalance like that will have consequences and will be punished by reality.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by phuketrichard »

lighten things up

In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by glennb6 »

From a few months back in The Economic Times:

LONDON: The Islamic State (ISIS) terrorist group has issued a travel advisory for its operatives to steer clear of coronavirus-hit Europe, described as "the land of the epidemic".

yup, so you too should live in fear for your life. As I laugh my ass off at this silliness and propaganda
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

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Vietnam reports 17 new COVID-19 cases, 1 more death
12 Aug 2020, 23:30 GMT+10
HANOI, Aug. 12 (Xinhua) -- Vietnam reported 17 new COVID-19 cases on Wednesday, bringing the total confirmed cases to 880, along with one more death from the disease, according to its Ministry of Health.

Among the new cases, three were recently returned from abroad and quarantined upon arrival while the rest 14 were recorded domestically, according to the ministry.

The newly-confirmed cases in the community included those reportedly in contact with previously confirmed cases at Da Nang Hospital in Vietnam's central Da Nang city, where a number of COVID-19 cases have been reported, according to the ministry.

The ministry also confirmed that one more death, a 55-year-old man from central Da Nang city, bringing the death toll to 17 as of Wednesday, adding that he had underlying medical conditions.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by yong »

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coron ... 4&si=44594


On the ground in Vietnam's new COVID epicenter of Danang
Nation's early success slips away as coastal city becomes new hot spot

Image
My Khe beach promenade in the Vietnamese resort city of Danang is deserted. (Photo by Hugh Bohane)
HUGH BOHANE, Contributing writerAugust 13, 2020 11:13 JST

DANANG, Vietnam -- Just weeks ago, things were looking up for residents of the Vietnamese coastal city of Danang. Their country was winning rave reviews globally for effectively handling the coronavirus pandemic, keeping infections low and being one of the few places hit to have avoided any deaths.

Optimism was in the air. The local economy was gazing ahead to the eventual return of the foreign tourists who once flocked to its scenic beaches fronting the South China Sea. And more broadly, Vietnam itself was planning to pick up the pieces from the economic effects of the virus, with hopes pinned on an increased investment from companies seeking a safe haven from the U.S.-China trade conflict.

But now, however, the atmosphere is fraught with fear and uncertainty as a surge in infections believed to have originated in the city and spreading elsewhere in the country has brought a series of emergency measures, with neighborhoods barricaded and residents are being mandatorily tested.

"The situation is pretty bad here, people are dying," David Tran, a local real estate and visa agent based in Danang told the Nikkei Asian Review. "More and more cases every day," Tran said, stressing that the number of infections in a single week equaled the total the previous seven months.

The fresh outbreak has left the country reeling and begs the question of how it went from containment success story to suddenly having to revert to extreme measures to again bring it under control. But despite the shock, the government and citizens are clearly willing to cooperate and take on the virus a second time.

As of Tuesday, Vietnam had recorded a total of 847 coronavirus cases nationwide, still far fewer than many countries. But there have now been 15 fatalities nationwide. The country had gone 99 days without a domestic infection until one was detected in Danang on July 25.

The virus, which rapidly spread around the world early this year from the Chinese city of Wuhan, came just as the outlook for Vietnam was looking up: The country was being increasingly seen as one of the main beneficiaries from the U.S.-China trade conflict, with international companies having already started to make new investments.


Image
A soldier stands guard on My Khe beach in Danang. (Photo by Hugh Bohane)

Since the virus reemerged in Danang, cases have been detected in other cities around the country, including the capital Hanoi and major southern metropolis and commercial hub Ho Chi Minh City. A 15-day period of social distancing began on July 28 in Danang with only basic services such as pharmacies, hospitals, ATMs and supermarkets allowed to operate. The tourist economy, which was still reeling from the lack of foreign visitors, is again stifled, with streets and beaches mostly empty.

Many of the new cases have been linked to three hospitals in Danang, according to the Health Ministry. The ministry issued a statement saying that up to 80,000 people who came to the city since July 1 have had to evacuate to other locations in the country.

It remains unclear how the outbreak began. Nguyen Thanh Long, Vietnam's top health official, said on July 27 that results of exams on infected patients identified a new strain of the virus, though the assertion has yet to be independently confirmed.

The Southeast Asian country's borders have been closed since March except for a few repatriation flights mostly bringing Vietnamese home from abroad. Those arrivals are seen as one possible explanation for the outbreak, while another could be related to 40 Chinese nationals illegally smuggled into Vietnam in April. Two Vietnamese citizens were detained on July 27 for allegedly organizing their entry, according to police officials.

In a move reminiscent of what happened in the Chinese city of Wuhan, albeit on a smaller scale, local authorities are testing the entire population of Danang -- a city of approximately 1.1 million people -- for possible infection. Local medical workers had conducted 8,247 tests before July 25 and carried out high-speed exams, including 5,000 in one day, in the city's Son Tra District.


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A guard patrols a barricaded street in An Thuong, Danang. (Photo by Hugh Bohane)

In a sign of the urgency that has overtaken Danang, the Tien Son Sports Center in the city center is being converted into a field hospital on track to open Wednesday, with capacity to hold up to 2,000 patients. About 100 people are working to meet the deadline, a security guard told the Nikkei Asian Review.

Vietnamese residents in and around one of the city's infection hot zones told Nikkei that they have had to take mandatory blood tests and stay inside their residences. The government is focusing on antibody blood tests as they can determine if a person had the virus before or is currently positive, and they are faster than the PCR swab tests.

In the Ngu Hanh Son neighborhood, close to the city's popular My Khe beach, one street went into full lockdown on July 30 after at least one case was detected there. The street, An Thuong 15, was cordoned off and guards and medics in full hazmat suits combed the area. A few other streets around the city have also been isolated with barricades so officials can root out possible cases.

The tension is beginning to wear on residents, but some are finding resilience in the national character of the country, which during the 20th century fought to overcome foreign occupation by colonial ruler France, saw off a massive U.S. military intervention and united the divided nation and resisted a brief but bloody Chinese invasion. Vietnam also battled the 2002-2003 SARS outbreak.

"I really hope this is the last time we get locked down," said Lani Hoang, 25, who had to give up being a tour guide in Danang when arrivals dried up and who now teaches the Vietnamese language. But Hoang stressed that the country has a can-do attitude no matter what difficulties it faces.

"Vietnamese people are famous for sticking together and showing solidarity with each other," she said, stressing her own patriotism. "We just need to stay strong and stay healthy and all will be well."

Tran and Hoang both agree that the Vietnamese government is trying its best to contain the virus and that the strict lockdown measures are a vital step in the right direction.

"Although there wasn't a case on my street, everyone seems pretty serious about this and people are just staying at home," Tran said.
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Re: Thailand Travel Restrictions and Info

Post by Anthony's Weiner »

[quote=glennb6 post_id=440744 time=1597236189 user_id=18736]
the curiosity of why SEA countries with virtually nil infections and inconsequential fatality numbers are so keen on remaining locked up and closed for T&T. While govt wonks and leaders (I hate using that word and govt in the same sentence, sorry) oft act as if they were plain stupid and ignorant, I don't believe that for a minute. Untrustworthy assholes probably but they are educated and intelligent yes and if they want to learn the 'real' numbers they have staff that can provide that data.

It's becoming well known that most CV deaths have been in old and sick people, many of which were confined to nursing homes, hospices, and care facilities. There have not been bodies in the street and the supposed news of hospitals overflowing with CV victims and crematoriums running 24/7 has been shown to be propaganda. In short, the 'real' numbers are BS. Infected and contagious but with no symptoms? Maybe some people fall for that but govt wonks probably know different.

So, why self-destroy T&T and all the supporting businesses? Why close borders? Why issue 'emergency decrees' and the dictatorial powers that they self-grant themselves? Why continue the fear propaganda through the media and large businesses?
None of this makes financial sense to any of the SEA countries bottom line.

If it doesn't make sense financially, and medically CV is known to be be a dud no worse than a flu, what does make sense?

Money? Control and strong arm 'suggestions' to take the money and go along with the program or else? WHO, UN, WEF, The Great Reset, Agenda 21, Agenda 2030, world level politics... yes that might be getting a little conspiratorial for some, or maybe not.
[/quote]

26,269 45 to 64 year old have died of covid19 inthe USA in the past 6 months. 4,268 19 to 45 have died. Obviously you are either much younger than 19 or have no children or grandchildren nor parents aged d 45 or above. If you are not stepping over bodies on the street it is not real? How about stored in refrigerated trucks, not devastating enough for you? Good luck to you my friend.
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Re: Thailand Travel Restrictions and Info

Post by Smedley »

glennb6 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:43 pm the curiosity of why SEA countries with virtually nil infections and inconsequential fatality numbers are so keen on remaining locked up and closed for T&T. While govt wonks and leaders (I hate using that word and govt in the same sentence, sorry) oft act as if they were plain stupid and ignorant, I don't believe that for a minute. Untrustworthy assholes probably but they are educated and intelligent yes and if they want to learn the 'real' numbers they have staff that can provide that data.

It's becoming well known that most CV deaths have been in old and sick people, many of which were confined to nursing homes, hospices, and care facilities. There have not been bodies in the street and the supposed news of hospitals overflowing with CV victims and crematoriums running 24/7 has been shown to be propaganda. In short, the 'real' numbers are BS. Infected and contagious but with no symptoms? Maybe some people fall for that but govt wonks probably know different.

So, why self-destroy T&T and all the supporting businesses? Why close borders? Why issue 'emergency decrees' and the dictatorial powers that they self-grant themselves? Why continue the fear propaganda through the media and large businesses?
None of this makes financial sense to any of the SEA countries bottom line.

If it doesn't make sense financially, and medically CV is known to be be a dud no worse than a flu, what does make sense?

Money? Control and strong arm 'suggestions' to take the money and go along with the program or else? WHO, UN, WEF, The Great Reset, Agenda 21, Agenda 2030, world level politics... yes that might be getting a little conspiratorial for some, or maybe not.
It's good to know that not everyone here is a brainwashed sheeple who believes all the BS they hear on CNN and from almost all other media. Kudos to you Glenn. And I might add, all the scary numbers coming out of the US are exaggerated tremendously.

They have distorted the definition of a "case" to mean anyone who tests positive, even though the great majority of them have no symptoms at all or very mild symptoms. A "case" used to mean someone who was genuinely sick before the CDC, WHO and related agencies manipulated its definition to hype up this pandemic.

Furthermore, the CDC defines a "case" not only as a positive test, but as a "presumptive" case if an untested person shows symptoms, which overlap with flu and pneumonia symptoms. They also allow, in their "case" definition, for the same person to be counted as two or more cases if they have two or more positive tests. And for their untested contacts to be a number of "presumed cases" even if the authorities haven't even checked them out.

This also assumes that the tests are accurate, which has never been demonstrated. Positive Predictive Value of most of these tests means that in a low-prevalence population, most positives would be false positives. And those are of course added to the scary number of "cases" that the Propaganda Media terrorizes people with hourly.

Not to mention that the US govt pays hospitals a huge bonus for every person they identify as Covid positive, and even more if they put them on a ventilator. So the hospitals have a financial incentive to hype the pandemic. And, the CDC tells doctors and hospitals to identify people who die with comorbidities as Covid deaths if they tested positive, even if the real cause of death was heart attack, cancer, flu, pneumonia, diabetes or other. Even motorcycle accident victims have been labeled as Covid deaths and recently a child who slipped in the shower, hit his head on the floor and died was labeled a Covid death because he tested positive.

The Case Fatality Rate has been demonstrated to be well under 1 percent, in most calculations it is 0.2% and some scientists say it is even much lower than that. In other words, comparable to the flu, which also kills weak, old people while healthy people routinely recover.

And the case that HCQ plus zinc cures the disease is very solid, but CDC and WHO refuse to acknowledge this, because HCQ is a generic, low cost drug and the drug companies that WHO and CDC are financially intertwined with want the "cure" to be a very expensive drug or vaccine. If there was a simple, cheap cure, then the justification for all the lockdowns and restrictions disappears.

Intravenous Vitamin C has also been demonstrated in Chinese studies to quickly cure the disease, and is in fact being used in a few enlightened hospitals in the US.

When you really probe this matter, it is obvious that there is a political agenda behind the whole pandemic, and it's not pretty. The globalists are using it to end freedom and install totalitarianism. I suspect all these countries like Cambodia and Thailand are being blackmailed and bribed to go along.
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Re: Thailand Travel Restrictions and Info

Post by Smedley »

Anthony's Weiner wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:55 pm
26,269 45 to 64 year old have died of covid19 inthe USA in the past 6 months. 4,268 19 to 45 have died. Obviously you are either much younger than 19 or have no children or grandchildren nor parents aged d 45 or above. If you are not stepping over bodies on the street it is not real? How about stored in refrigerated trucks, not devastating enough for you? Good luck to you my friend.
Anthony, if you really look into those 4,268 younger deaths, I think you will find that almost all of them had comorbidities like heart disease, cancer, pneumonia, diabetes, obesity, and it's the comorbidities that killed them. The media don't tell you that, of course. They tell you that they died from Covid. They make no distinction between people who died FROM covid or WITH a Covid positive test.
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Re: Thailand Travel Restrictions and Info

Post by glennb6 »

chinesetakeaway wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:22 pm
Dunderhead wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:31 pm Well as long as you feel safe, that's what matters. As long as your ox isn't getting gored it's ok.
The welfare of the vulnerable must come before others in a pandemic. If you feel they should be ‘sacrificed’ then gather your elderly family members and line them and ,.. then we can see you’re willing to walk the WALK!
:facepalm:

whom are these vulnerable people? If they are at risk then recommend they wear masks, condoms, bunny suits, and stay in their sealed rooms. And note I said recommend and not mandate or force at the point of a gun. Up to them, and if I were old and sick, well me personally I doubt if I'd want to remain quarantined from all others for long.

To scream "granny killer" is a load of virtue signaling control freak socialist bull crap. ASK GRANNY and up to her.
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