Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by Kammekor »

clutchcargo wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:54 pm
clutchcargo wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:37 pm ^^^^^

Very good point phuketrichard. There's obviously the key metric of deaths and then you hear of people having few symptoms or mildly affected. But yeah, there's a whole other group that have sustained health issues..dunno how many but I assume not a minor stat.
More on this:

Nearly 20% of young, healthy coronavirus patients hadn't recovered after 2 to 3 weeks, the CDC found — showing infection can cause 'prolonged illness'

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/youn ... cdc-2020-7
Let's put this in perspective.

When I contracted dengue last year I hadn't fully recovered after 2-3 weeks too. And I'm pretty healthy. I checked my blood five days after the fever was gone and my blood looked like someone suffering from leukemia. Now I'm fully recovered.

When you contract a serious viral infection, it can take weeks to get back to normal, especially when it's a virus you never encountered before (like dengue in my case).

<edit>
When I had dengue, I felt pretty, pretty bad. Very high fever, extreme sweating, no appetite at all, chills at night heating up my body, blood getting worse every day etc etc. I can imagine the virus killing elderly, just like the novel corona virus can if it's new for you.
</edit>
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by clutchcargo »

Kammekor wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:38 pm
clutchcargo wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:54 pm
clutchcargo wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:37 pm ^^^^^

Very good point phuketrichard. There's obviously the key metric of deaths and then you hear of people having few symptoms or mildly affected. But yeah, there's a whole other group that have sustained health issues..dunno how many but I assume not a minor stat.
More on this:

Nearly 20% of young, healthy coronavirus patients hadn't recovered after 2 to 3 weeks, the CDC found — showing infection can cause 'prolonged illness'

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/youn ... cdc-2020-7
Let's put this in perspective.

When I contracted dengue last year I hadn't fully recovered after 2-3 weeks too. And I'm pretty healthy. I checked my blood five days after the fever was gone and my blood looked like someone suffering from leukemia. Now I'm fully recovered.

When you contract a serious viral infection, it can take weeks to get back to normal, especially when it's a virus you never encountered before (like dengue in my case). Together with suggestions that you can catch it again as immunity drops off quicker than they thought.

<edit>
When I had dengue, I felt pretty, pretty bad. Very high fever, extreme sweating, no appetite at all, chills at night heating up my body, blood getting worse every day etc etc. I can imagine the virus killing elderly, just like the novel corona virus can if it's new for you.
</edit>
Yeah, dengue is pretty nasty. Mrs Cargo got it last year. She was pretty bad too and off work for 2 weeks and still felt weak for another 2 weeks after that and she's young and healthy. I understand there are 4 types of dengue with different severity.

I suppose the point of the article and PR's original one is that it can involve quite a bit of 'down time' for many people and hence lost productivity.

I don't read all the covid stuff these days but I understand from other articles there is a worrying aspect of it that it may cause longer term damage/problems to organs..even after recovery. More studies required but that's a worry. That, and suggestions that you can catch it again as immunity reduces over time quicker than previously thought. Again, more studies to be done.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by Rtrac »

Keep in mind what we know about illnesses like Dengue Fever vs this new novel infection:

Dengue was identified as a virus in 1943 = Ren Kimura and Susumu Hotta first isolated the dengue virus.
We isolated the Covid 19 virus in February of 2020.

It is pure hubris to talking about this virus and compare it to something we have studied for decades. I think this is a subtle way to minimize the infection and to ignore the devastation it is causing.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by Kammekor »

Rtrac wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:38 pm Keep in mind what we know about illnesses like Dengue Fever vs this new novel infection:

Dengue was identified as a virus in 1943 = Ren Kimura and Susumu Hotta first isolated the dengue virus.
We isolated the Covid 19 virus in February of 2020.

It is pure hubris to talking about this virus and compare it to something we have studied for decades. I think this is a subtle way to minimize the infection and to ignore the devastation it is causing.
For my body the dengue virus was a novel virus, I had no natural immunity against it since neither myself or my parents, or my grandparents ever contracted it.

For both viruses there’s no effective treatment.

People’s response to the virus can differ a lot. Ranging from hardly noticed to fatal.

Full recovery from an infection can take quite some time after the symptoms have disappeared and the virus has become untraceable in the blood.

So I do see a load of similarities between dengue and the novel Corona virus.

Even though we have known the dengue virus for decades we still know very little. No vaccin, no effective treatment and every year an estimated 390 million people contract dengue with an estimated 500,000 people developing a potential fatal disease.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by hunter8 »

Apollo91881 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:25 pm
hunter8 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:02 pm
Dunderhead wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:14 pm Such a scary virus. 8 per 100000 dead globally by the official numbers. 645 K with 7.8 billion on the planet. Is math scary? Can't you do division and use your own mind to see the obvious? I guess not. Wear your mask slave.
Exactly, goes to show how badly most people did at school, can’t see white from black.
phuketrichard wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:55 am If ur not sick, why would u get tested?
Many people don’t have a choice because they arrived from somewhere or by profession.

Even more people were scared into that. If you watch tv of other countries as i do, you will see queues of young people feeling fine but who stand long hours waiting for their turn to a testing center. Of course, with that kind of dedication, more and more infections will be found, no matter that those young people had no symptoms in the first place and wouldn’t know if they didn’t get tested.
I suppose the math and rationale works especially well when:
1) You don't consider any of the potential chronic/long term illness that people face even if they recover.
2) You don't consider the need to not overload the healthcare system with patients.
3) You're young and do test positive, but don't change your behavior to prevent infecting others.
1) I had some kind of bad flu in December in Pattaya, i still have a cough after it. Was it covid or not, who knows. I don’t give a puck and wouldn’t go to a doctor for a flu and it would make zero difference if i went.
2) All these young people waiting to get tested and taking a bed in a hospital while they could stay at home with minor symptoms is what overloads the healthcare system, and people start dying of other untreated diseases, because all medical hands are on covid.
3) The style of mask wearing and other “measures” is a joke in most countries. It would make no difference whatsoever for them, because it is done completely wrong. People cannot change their habits of touching dirty surfaces and face, and all those small things that are enough to transmit a virus. Young or old, can’t turn people into robots. Yeah, they will pretend doing it for some time.

So the math and rationale work quite well, if someone’s willing to apply them.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

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Vietnam detects first locally transmitted Covid-19 cases since April
Nation which had been praised for its swift action against coronavirus brings in strict new disease prevention measures
Rebecca Ratcliffe, South-east Asia correspondent
Published on Mon 27 Jul 2020 06.53 BST
Vietnam is evacuating 80,000 people from the central city of Danang and reimposing disease-prevention measures, after four local coronavirus cases were detected, the first to be recorded in the country for more than three months.

Life had returned to normal for many in the country, which had been praised widely for taking quick action to contain Covid-19 and was on the brink of reaching 100 days without any new local infections. On Saturday, however, a 57-year-old grandfather was confirmed to have tested positive - the first community infection since April.

Social distancing measures have been introduced indefinitely across Danang, a tourist hotspot, with all religious, sports and cultural events suspended. Wearing masks in public places in the city is now compulsory and gatherings of more than 30 people at public places are banned, the government said.

The city’s borders were also shut on Monday to inbound domestic tourists, while the authorities said 80,000 people, mostly tourists, will be evacuated. Almost all foreign travellers are banned from visiting Vietnam, and anyone who does enter the country must quarantine on arrival.

The source of the new cases is not clear. Vietnamese media reported that the 57-year-old man, a retired grandfather, had not left the city in recent months, but had visited three healthcare facilities and had recently attended a wedding. He visited hospital with a cough and fever on 20 July and is reportedly in critical condition.

The three other cases include a 61-year-old man in Danang, a 17-year-old boy in Quang Ngai province and a 71-year-old woman in Danang.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -in-danang
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by hunter8 »

Oh my. It’s hard to see a peaceful resolution to this. I wonder what ancestors would think if they were told that people in the future will try to stop a respiratory disease by banning life.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by Apollo91881 »

hunter8 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:43 pm
Apollo91881 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:25 pm
hunter8 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:02 pm
Dunderhead wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:14 pm Such a scary virus. 8 per 100000 dead globally by the official numbers. 645 K with 7.8 billion on the planet. Is math scary? Can't you do division and use your own mind to see the obvious? I guess not. Wear your mask slave.
Exactly, goes to show how badly most people did at school, can’t see white from black.
phuketrichard wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:55 am If ur not sick, why would u get tested?
Many people don’t have a choice because they arrived from somewhere or by profession.

Even more people were scared into that. If you watch tv of other countries as i do, you will see queues of young people feeling fine but who stand long hours waiting for their turn to a testing center. Of course, with that kind of dedication, more and more infections will be found, no matter that those young people had no symptoms in the first place and wouldn’t know if they didn’t get tested.
I suppose the math and rationale works especially well when:
1) You don't consider any of the potential chronic/long term illness that people face even if they recover.
2) You don't consider the need to not overload the healthcare system with patients.
3) You're young and do test positive, but don't change your behavior to prevent infecting others.
1) I had some kind of bad flu in December in Pattaya, i still have a cough after it. Was it covid or not, who knows. I don’t give a puck and wouldn’t go to a doctor for a flu and it would make zero difference if i went.
2) All these young people waiting to get tested and taking a bed in a hospital while they could stay at home with minor symptoms is what overloads the healthcare system, and people start dying of other untreated diseases, because all medical hands are on covid.
3) The style of mask wearing and other “measures” is a joke in most countries. It would make no difference whatsoever for them, because it is done completely wrong. People cannot change their habits of touching dirty surfaces and face, and all those small things that are enough to transmit a virus. Young or old, can’t turn people into robots. Yeah, they will pretend doing it for some time.

So the math and rationale work quite well, if someone’s willing to apply them.
Not sure what your first statement has to do with the discourse. Glad you got better-ish. The issues associated with COVID can have an impact on a larger percentage of the population than just the mortality rate.
Not sure where you are getting the idea that young people are taking up precious ICU space and choose the hospital over staying at home. Is this an assumption you're making?
Seems like masks make a difference when considering aerosolized virus. Easy to not take it seriously when leaders don't advocate for it, nor when the medical experts change the message. However, that doesn't make wearing them invalid. If people choose not to change their behavior then so be it. Expect to be marginalized and not let in establishments where wearing is required. It's that easy. Choose the company you keep.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

Post by hunter8 »

Apollo91881 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:13 pm Not sure what your first statement has to do with the discourse. Glad you got better-ish. The issues associated with COVID can have an impact on a larger percentage of the population than just the mortality rate.
Not sure where you are getting the idea that young people are taking up precious ICU space and choose the hospital over staying at home. Is this an assumption you're making?
Seems like masks make a difference when considering aerosolized virus. Easy to not take it seriously when leaders don't advocate for it, nor when the medical experts change the message. However, that doesn't make wearing them invalid. If people choose not to change their behavior then so be it. Expect to be marginalized and not let in establishments where wearing is required. It's that easy. Choose the company you keep.
My first statement is evidence that bad flus can have long-term effects. Covid is not unique in that. I can imagine many fragile people have had recovery problems and even died from flu for ages, as their immune systems are weak, and there is enough statistical data to support this.

Young people do not take ICU beds but they do take a lot of work to get tested and processed and be put into an isolation facility if found positive which does take a lot of medical resources. People in developing countries are freaked out and go to be tested because they are truely scared. As i said i watch tv of third-world countries and it’s madness over nothing, storm in a teacup. It’s like their bigger problems do not exist any more.

On the other hand, the way they wear masks and other hygiene exercises performed are done wrong and cannot possibly stop anything. Due to that the rule of wearing a mask in establishments is meaningless, in the end it’s all for a show, show of doing something.
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Re: Following the Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak - News and Discussion

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Spreading the word is also spreading the coronavirus, but all over the globe, religious meetings are having a hard time with social distancing, and also with social responsibility toward their community and others.

'The whole church has got it, just about': dozens with Covid-19 after Alabama Baptist revival
27 July 2020
Pastor says churchgoers tested positive after multi-day event
‘We knew what we were getting into. We knew the possibilities’

More than 40 people were infected with the coronavirus after attending a multi-day revival event at a north Alabama Baptist church, according to the congregation’s pastor.

“The whole church has got it, just about,” Pastor Daryl Ross of Warrior Creek Missionary Baptist church in Marshall county told AI.com.

The pastor said churchgoers, including himself, tested positive after a series of religious services featuring a guest pastor over several days last week.

Ross said the services were shut down by Friday after one of the members who attended tested positive for the virus. The member presented no symptoms, but got tested when several of his co-workers received positive tests, according to the pastor.

Over the weekend, dozens more fell ill, Ross said, adding: “I’ve got church members sick everywhere.”

“We knew what we were getting into. We knew the possibilities.”

Ross said two cases were serious and as of Sunday nobody had been hospitalized, though many had reported fevers, headaches and respiratory issues.

He said some social distancing measures were in place during the services, which were held multiple times a day, and most members skipped the events out of concern for the virus. Those that attended sat with their own families. Masks were not required, the newspaper reported.

“We let everybody do what they felt like. If you were comfortable shaking hands, you shook hands. If you didn’t, you didn’t,” the pastor said.

The church is located in a small community called Strawberry, about 60 miles north-east of Birmingham.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ch-revival
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