15 minute cities

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Tue May 02, 2023 3:26 am

This article... the author is imagining dystopian scenes and reporting on them as if they were a matter of fact, and not his opinion or active imagination.

For decades now there has been a problem with traffic in most major cities. There have been movies made where the daily, excrutiating commute to work drives people crazy. If you go online to ask people's opinion about such and such city you'll often see comments like 'great employment opportunities, terrible traffic and smog from all the car exhausts'. Radio stations have morning traffic reports advising people to leave 30 minutes earlier because traffic is backed up on XXXX highway into the city. People hate that you have to drive an hour through awful traffic, and if there happens to be a breakdown or crash that holds up traffic, you'll be late for work. If you're unlucky enough to be waiting for emergency services that are stuck in traffic, you might just die.

There are three rush hours where driving anywhere is often frustrating and tedious - when people go to work, home from work, and when they all go to pick up their kids from school. It's something you often need to plan your day around.

Traffic is a known, recognised problem. It's even worse if you can't drive for whatever reasons, you have to rely on (often crap, unreliable) public transport to get anywhere, people talk about being trapped by not being able to drive.

When houses are put up for sale or rent in the area I live in, one of the selling points is it's 5 minutes walk to the nearest supermarket and shops, and X number of schools very close by. This is seen as a desirable factor when looking for a home, it adds value to your real estate.

And yet, when town planners acknowledge these issues and try to resolve them through better planning, some people yell about 'they're taking muh freedoms'.
Not everything is a dastardly plot, sometimes change really is just people trying to do their job to resolve a problem, or improve a less-than-ideal situation.

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Tue May 02, 2023 6:53 am

i live in a 15 minute Village<
have everything;
Multiple restaurants, (local and farang), 3 Supermarkets, Beach, Bars, Spas, Local Government office, Mosque, Wat, Multiple weed shops and 7/11's, Post office, Health clinic, Daily outdoor market, Local school, gas station, 5 days /week night market, hiking paths into the mtns, Bicycle sales/repair shop, Car repair, Motorcycle sales/repair

when we had a 2 week lockdown during Covid, it was no serious problem here

David Gordon · Post by **David Gordon** » Tue May 02, 2023 7:54 am

Random Dude wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 3:26 am This article... the author is imagining dystopian scenes and reporting on them as if they were a matter of fact, and not his opinion or active imagination.

For decades now there has been a problem with traffic in most major cities. There have been movies made where the daily, excrutiating commute to work drives people crazy. If you go online to ask people's opinion about such and such city you'll often see comments like 'great employment opportunities, terrible traffic and smog from all the car exhausts'. Radio stations have morning traffic reports advising people to leave 30 minutes earlier because traffic is backed up on XXXX highway into the city. People hate that you have to drive an hour through awful traffic, and if there happens to be a breakdown or crash that holds up traffic, you'll be late for work. If you're unlucky enough to be waiting for emergency services that are stuck in traffic, you might just die.

There are three rush hours where driving anywhere is often frustrating and tedious - when people go to work, home from work, and when they all go to pick up their kids from school. It's something you often need to plan your day around.

Traffic is a known, recognised problem. It's even worse if you can't drive for whatever reasons, you have to rely on (often crap, unreliable) public transport to get anywhere, people talk about being trapped by not being able to drive.

When houses are put up for sale or rent in the area I live in, one of the selling points is it's 5 minutes walk to the nearest supermarket and shops, and X number of schools very close by. This is seen as a desirable factor when looking for a home, it adds value to your real estate.

And yet, when town planners acknowledge these issues and try to resolve them through better planning, some people yell about 'they're taking muh freedoms'.
Not everything is a dastardly plot, sometimes change really is just people trying to do their job to resolve a problem, or improve a less-than-ideal situation.

15 minute cities are a good idea from an urban planning perspective. It it ends there.

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Tue May 02, 2023 12:36 pm

David Gordon wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 7:54 am
Random Dude wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 3:26 am This article... the author is imagining dystopian scenes and reporting on them as if they were a matter of fact, and not his opinion or active imagination.

For decades now there has been a problem with traffic in most major cities. There have been movies made where the daily, excrutiating commute to work drives people crazy. If you go online to ask people's opinion about such and such city you'll often see comments like 'great employment opportunities, terrible traffic and smog from all the car exhausts'. Radio stations have morning traffic reports advising people to leave 30 minutes earlier because traffic is backed up on XXXX highway into the city. People hate that you have to drive an hour through awful traffic, and if there happens to be a breakdown or crash that holds up traffic, you'll be late for work. If you're unlucky enough to be waiting for emergency services that are stuck in traffic, you might just die.

There are three rush hours where driving anywhere is often frustrating and tedious - when people go to work, home from work, and when they all go to pick up their kids from school. It's something you often need to plan your day around.

Traffic is a known, recognised problem. It's even worse if you can't drive for whatever reasons, you have to rely on (often crap, unreliable) public transport to get anywhere, people talk about being trapped by not being able to drive.

When houses are put up for sale or rent in the area I live in, one of the selling points is it's 5 minutes walk to the nearest supermarket and shops, and X number of schools very close by. This is seen as a desirable factor when looking for a home, it adds value to your real estate.

And yet, when town planners acknowledge these issues and try to resolve them through better planning, some people yell about 'they're taking muh freedoms'.
Not everything is a dastardly plot, sometimes change really is just people trying to do their job to resolve a problem, or improve a less-than-ideal situation.
15 minute cities are a good idea from an urban planning perspective. It it ends there.

Not all that long ago people would go to a butcher shop, then maybe a couple of places to get their fruit and veg, then probably a general store type place to get things like coffee, flour etc... then supermarkets came along.

So then people would go to the supermarket to buy their groceries, then somewhere else to get their hair cut, somewhere else for lunch, keep driving to buy some shoes or a new shirt, carry on somewhere else to watch a movie or take the kids skating or something before going home ... and then malls came along and you can do everything under the same roof. They're very popular for that reason.

Nobody got forced to go to the supermarkets or malls. You're free to go wherever you want. I don't see how a 15 minute city would be any different.

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Tue May 02, 2023 1:21 pm

".....Nobody got forced to go to the supermarkets or malls. You're free to go wherever you want. I don't see how a 15 minute city would be any different.."
there is MORE to a city than shopping

Read the list of what I posted that is all within a 15 minute walk of my house

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Tue May 02, 2023 1:35 pm

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 1:21 pm ".....Nobody got forced to go to the supermarkets or malls. You're free to go wherever you want. I don't see how a 15 minute city would be any different.."
there is MORE to a city than shopping

Read the list of what I posted that is all within a 15 minute walk of my house

I understand that, my point was that nobody cares if you go out of your 'mall/supermarket area, why would anyone care if you leave a 15 minute city (assuming there's covid lockdown or similar crisis going on)?

violet · Post by **violet** » Tue May 02, 2023 1:39 pm

Random Dude wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 1:35 pm
phuketrichard wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 1:21 pm ".....Nobody got forced to go to the supermarkets or malls. You're free to go wherever you want. I don't see how a 15 minute city would be any different.."
there is MORE to a city than shopping

Read the list of what I posted that is all within a 15 minute walk of my house
I understand that, my point was that nobody cares if you go out of your 'mall/supermarket area, why would anyone care if you leave a 15 minute city (assuming there's covid lockdown or similar crisis going on)?

Because the assumption is that would require transportation beyond your legs

David Gordon · Post by **David Gordon** » Tue May 02, 2023 3:58 pm

phuketrichard wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 6:53 am i live in a 15 minute Village<
have everything;
Multiple restaurants, (local and farang), 3 Supermarkets, Beach, Bars, Spas, Local Government office, Mosque, Wat, Multiple weed shops and 7/11's, Post office, Health clinic, Daily outdoor market, Local school, gas station, 5 days /week night market, hiking paths into the mtns, Bicycle sales/repair shop, Car repair, Motorcycle sales/repair

when we had a 2 week lockdown during Covid, it was no serious problem here

That sounds pretty fabulous Richard.

phuketrichard · Post by **phuketrichard** » Tue May 02, 2023 5:43 pm

David Gordon wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 3:58 pm
phuketrichard wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 6:53 am i live in a 15 minute Village<
have everything;
Multiple restaurants, (local and farang), 3 Supermarkets, Beach, Bars, Spas, Local Government office, Mosque, Wat, Multiple weed shops and 7/11's, Post office, Health clinic, Daily outdoor market, Local school, gas station, 5 days /week night market, hiking paths into the mtns, Bicycle sales/repair shop, Car repair, Motorcycle sales/repair

when we had a 2 week lockdown during Covid, it was no serious problem here
That sounds pretty fabulous Richard.

I agree, thats why its "home" since 1996 except for the 15 months in California & 17 months in Kep

IraHayes · Post by **IraHayes** » Tue May 02, 2023 10:43 pm

Governments/monarchs/emperors have historically restricted the movement of their citizens for a few key reasons:-

public health emergencies such as the bubonic plague in medieval Europe to prevent its spread.
National security such as the US government's internment of Japanese Americans during World War II.
Political and social control... this is the one that kept cropping up all the time. The old Soviet Russia, China, North Korea, South Africa during apartheid, Nazi Germany, and there are even accounts from ancient China and the Qin Dynasty (221-206 BCE) where they imposed travel restrictions for health and social control. China, to this day knows rebellions have always started in the South.

My worry here is that the whole idea of a 15 min city is a form of political control wrapped in a sugary sweet coating... something that will remain benign and innocuous until they decide to use it as a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Its a bit like the idea of a central bank digital currency.... great in theory but way to open for abuse should you be deemed a threat to the current perceived status quo.
or, those new smart meters that can be turned off or restricted at the whim of the supplier when demand exceeds production.

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