Big Daikon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:36 pm

YaTingPom wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:42 am

Big Daikon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:56 am Being upset by war atrocities anywhere is a healthy, empathetic response.

Desecrating a graveyard is hardly an atrocity. Let's get things into perspective shall we.

It is really vile and a sign of a sick mind.

Who, me or them?

I'm out. The murdering and raping of women and children is vile and sick.
The are both as bad as each other. I am glad I am not from that region.

Fuck the lot of them.

Head Of UN Agency Denounces ‘Shocking’ Funding Cuts Amid Allegations Staffers Were Involved In Hamas’ Attack On Israel

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesfarr ... srael/amp/

“The head of the United Nations agency providing humanitarian aid to Palestinian refugees on Saturday denounced a move by a growing number of countries to pull funding for the agency following allegations by Israel that some of its staffers participated in Hamas’ attack on Israel on Oct. 7.”

Palestinians have been screwed in the past.

Palestinians are being screwed now.

Palestinians will be screwed in the future.

Their best hope for peace is to be part of Israel and get a seat at the table to change things for the better.

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:12 am Their best hope for peace is to be part of Israel and get a seat at the table to change things for the better.

Please expand on this if you can.
Been thinking the same but am curious how you would see that go down and how it could become better.

Because obviously it would be an apartheid society with Palestinians existing somewhere between dirt and cockroaches.

Or how would you prevent that?

ItWasntMe wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:18 pm

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:12 am Their best hope for peace is to be part of Israel and get a seat at the table to change things for the better.

Please expand on this if you can.
Been thinking the same but am curious how you would see that go down and how it could become better.

Because obviously it would be an apartheid society with Palestinians existing somewhere between dirt and cockroaches.

Or how would you prevent that?

Wouldn't there need to be a fundamental, constitutional change?

And a formal reconciliation process (e.g., resolution of the Right of Return issue, among others).

How much appetite among the Israeli public is there for such change, especially under current circumstances? The current regime is not exactly receptive to parties like Hadash and the Joint List.

Roryborealis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:02 pm

ItWasntMe wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:18 pm

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:12 am Their best hope for peace is to be part of Israel and get a seat at the table to change things for the better.

Please expand on this if you can.
Been thinking the same but am curious how you would see that go down and how it could become better.

Because obviously it would be an apartheid society with Palestinians existing somewhere between dirt and cockroaches.

Or how would you prevent that?

Wouldn't there need to be a fundamental, constitutional change?

And a formal reconciliation process (e.g., resolution of the Right of Return issue, among others).

How much appetite among the Israeli public is there for such change, especially under current circumstances? The current regime is not exactly receptive to parties like Hadash and the Joint List.

Right, but at the same time the two state proposal is just political nonsense. It's not going to happen, its just a slogan.

So either continue this shit forever or, the worst thing an old dog knows, try something new.

My line of thought is no more advanved than that.

Roryborealis wrote:

ItWasntMe wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:18 pm

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:12 am Their best hope for peace is to be part of Israel and get a seat at the table to change things for the better.

Please expand on this if you can.
Been thinking the same but am curious how you would see that go down and how it could become better.

Because obviously it would be an apartheid society with Palestinians existing somewhere between dirt and cockroaches.

Or how would you prevent that?

Wouldn't there need to be a fundamental, constitutional change?

And a formal reconciliation process (e.g., resolution of the Right of Return issue, among others).

How much appetite among the Israeli public is there for such change, especially under current circumstances? The current regime is not exactly receptive to parties like Hadash and the Joint List.

Apartheid is a de-facto and has existed for decades. It doesn’t work when one side sees killing as the answer and the other side doesn’t want to be killed.

In general Israelis don’t want to kill Palestinians but Palestinians believe it is their duty to kill Israelis. Based on numerous quotes, Israeli leadership see Palestinians (and most of the Arab world) as animals never to be trusted where only strength is respected and feared.

Once the Palestinians are part of the Israeli public and part of the Israeli legislature as well as all other parts of the Israeli government, then change happens.

Same as in other western democracies. Minorities join society and the government, their voices get heard, changes happen. Universal suffrage (women have the right to vote), civil rights, etc. Now accepted as a normal part of any western society.

Palestinians insisting on stolen land and the only solution is the wiping Israel off the face of the earth is a non-answer that hasn’t worked, isn’t working, and will never work.

Believing in the Iranians, Houthis, Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas as their salvation has brought them death, destruction, and despair.

All these people live on the same land. Sharing the land together is the best way forward.

My dreams of course.

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:10 pm

Roryborealis wrote:

ItWasntMe wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:18 pm

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:12 am Their best hope for peace is to be part of Israel and get a seat at the table to change things for the better.

Please expand on this if you can.
Been thinking the same but am curious how you would see that go down and how it could become better.

Because obviously it would be an apartheid society with Palestinians existing somewhere between dirt and cockroaches.

Or how would you prevent that?

Wouldn't there need to be a fundamental, constitutional change?

And a formal reconciliation process (e.g., resolution of the Right of Return issue, among others).

How much appetite among the Israeli public is there for such change, especially under current circumstances? The current regime is not exactly receptive to parties like Hadash and the Joint List.

Apartheid is a de-facto and has existed for decades. It doesn’t work when one side sees killing as the answer and the other side doesn’t want to be killed.

In general Israelis don’t want to kill Palestinians but Palestinians believe it is their duty to kill Israelis. Based on numerous quotes, Israeli leadership see Palestinians (and most of the Arab world) as animals never to be trusted where only strength is respected and feared.

Once the Palestinians are part of the Israeli public and part of the Israeli legislature as well as all other parts of the Israeli government, then change happens.

Same as in other western democracies. Minorities join society and the government, their voices get heard, changes happen. Universal suffrage (women have the right to vote), civil rights, etc. Now accepted as a normal part of any western society.

Palestinians insisting on stolen land and the only solution is the wiping Israel off the face of the earth is a non-answer that hasn’t worked, isn’t working, and will never work.

Believing in the Iranians, Houthis, Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas as their salvation has brought them death, destruction, and despair.

All these people live on the same land. Sharing the land together is the best way forward.

My dreams of course.

Remember the Balkan wars? What made them "get along" finally? Don't you think all sides need a friendly slap on the wrist?

You make it sound very one sided, if only Palestinians weren't so bad we would all get along. Maybe true.

But how is that an invitation to a one state solution?

ItWasntMe wrote:

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:10 pm

Roryborealis wrote:

ItWasntMe wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 12:18 pm

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:12 am Their best hope for peace is to be part of Israel and get a seat at the table to change things for the better.

Please expand on this if you can.
Been thinking the same but am curious how you would see that go down and how it could become better.

Because obviously it would be an apartheid society with Palestinians existing somewhere between dirt and cockroaches.

Or how would you prevent that?

Wouldn't there need to be a fundamental, constitutional change?

And a formal reconciliation process (e.g., resolution of the Right of Return issue, among others).

How much appetite among the Israeli public is there for such change, especially under current circumstances? The current regime is not exactly receptive to parties like Hadash and the Joint List.

Apartheid is a de-facto and has existed for decades. It doesn’t work when one side sees killing as the answer and the other side doesn’t want to be killed.

In general Israelis don’t want to kill Palestinians but Palestinians believe it is their duty to kill Israelis. Based on numerous quotes, Israeli leadership see Palestinians (and most of the Arab world) as animals never to be trusted where only strength is respected and feared.

Once the Palestinians are part of the Israeli public and part of the Israeli legislature as well as all other parts of the Israeli government, then change happens.

Same as in other western democracies. Minorities join society and the government, their voices get heard, changes happen. Universal suffrage (women have the right to vote), civil rights, etc. Now accepted as a normal part of any western society.

Palestinians insisting on stolen land and the only solution is the wiping Israel off the face of the earth is a non-answer that hasn’t worked, isn’t working, and will never work.

Believing in the Iranians, Houthis, Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas as their salvation has brought them death, destruction, and despair.

All these people live on the same land. Sharing the land together is the best way forward.

My dreams of course.

Remember the Balkan wars? What made them "get along" finally? Don't you think all sides need a friendly slap on the wrist?

You make it sound very one sided, if only Palestinians weren't so bad we would all get along. Maybe true.

But how is that an invitation to a one state solution?

Yugoslavia was an artificial creation by Tito and backed up by Soviet troops. After the fall, Serbia tried to maintain it using purely military force. Unfortunately ethnic rivalries drew in the UN to intervene.

Palestinians have been occupied and oppressed since Mohammed rolled in and the Caliphate was established. After the Mandate creating Palestine, the various Arab brothers didn’t care about them, either. Other countries still occupied their lands and considered it part of their territory. Only after Israel beat them in military conflict did they encourage the Palestinians to rise up and reclaim. No one wants to give them a home, only a chance to occupy and oppress them some more.

Palestinians aren’t bad. They have been screwed in the past, they are being screwed right now, they will be screwed some more in the future. They are only given the option of being screwed.

Unlike most of the Arab world, Israel is a democracy and a first world nation. The natural course of democracies is to incorporate minorities and change. Once Palestinians join Israel, the land and rights questions get resolved by the government and the courts and public opinion, like a proper democracy. Reporters can act as impartial watchdogs to ensure this happens.

The problem is there are too many vested interests that want to keep the Palestinians right where they are now and forever.

My opinion about a controversial and emotionally laden issue.