Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:59 pm

Rain Dog wrote:
OrangeDragon wrote:
Rain Dog wrote:
Certainly there are times when heavier weaponry is needed. I thought that is what Swat teams were for.

Bringing tanks and armored vehicles to protests --- even some with a few bad seeds --- holds democracy and freedom of speech in contempt.
those were SWAT teams. as shown by the shooting that started it all, patrol officers only have sidearms and a shotgun (sometimes an AR-15 instead of a shotgun if they've qualified on one.. but like the shotgun it's locked into the car and takes time to get out, thus wouldn't be carried without some prior planning and need). those armored cars are all part of SWAT, and sometimes gang units which are even more intense than SWAT. i get that the media frequently doesn't make the distinction... saying things like "the _____ police department" instead of "the swat team of the _______ police department". that's because this outrage sells and media is there to sell, not report.

as for holding the 1st ammendment in contempt, only if they impede them. their presence as monitors of a public activity does not violate anything. in all of the cases they only intervened when the protesters engaged them with violence of failed to comply with public safety laws (neither of which freedom of speech gives you a right to do).
SWAT teams and heavy armor have no business at a largely peaceful protest. It is all about intimidation.
No, it's all about the riots that had broken out less than 24 hours previously... when there was no SWAT team and heavy armor. Riots on night one with just regular beat cops unable to manage it... leads to SWAT on night two to try and manage it better. And their presence gets called oppressive and heavy handed and they tuned out the connection between the two.

People try to draw a line to say they're different things/groups of people... and I believe they are... but the looters and rioters are mixed in with the protesters, so how can the cops tell them apart. They don't have special looter shirts on.

If the protesters really wanted to stick it to the rioters and looters (as they claim to do) then they would just all not show up one night. Let the looters stand out there by themselves with not innocent people to hide behind and let the cops have full access to them.
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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:01 pm

StroppyChops wrote: Possibly more plausibly aimed at me OD, but I don't respond to posts with reply conditions in them, that's just online bullying.
I thought I was the sole target of his/her affections.

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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by beaker » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:27 pm

Right now there are thousands demonstrating and camping out refusing to leave till the president steps down in Pakistan. Check it out and contrast it with what the police are doing in Ferguson. Sad day when Pakistanis have more rights and freedom than Americans
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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:46 pm

I love how people constantly gloss over the parts where the protesters weren't acted upon until some of them became violent...
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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by beaker » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:25 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:I love how people constantly gloss over the parts where the protesters weren't acted upon until some of them became violent...
You mean like throwing a plastic water bottles, not continually moving, or failing to disperse when ordered or gathering in a group.
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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:12 pm

beaker wrote:
OrangeDragon wrote:I love how people constantly gloss over the parts where the protesters weren't acted upon until some of them became violent...
You mean like throwing a plastic water bottles, not continually moving, or failing to disperse when ordered or gathering in a group.
only the first 2 (both of which were forfeits of their right to assemble in the way they had chosen)... and it was a glass bottle, followed by bricks. the 3rd/4th came after the first two, as a result of them.
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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by beaker » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:23 am

OrangeDragon wrote:
beaker wrote:
OrangeDragon wrote:I love how people constantly gloss over the parts where the protesters weren't acted upon until some of them became violent...
You mean like throwing a plastic water bottles, not continually moving, or failing to disperse when ordered or gathering in a group.
only the first 2 (both of which were forfeits of their right to assemble in the way they had chosen)... and it was a glass bottle, followed by bricks. the 3rd/4th came after the first two, as a result of them.
(both of which were forfeits of their right to assemble in the way they had chosen)...
What amendment to the constitution sez that cuz i don't remember the constitution saying citizens have the right to assemble, unless someone throws something then everyone in the assembly looses their right
Enlighten me please.
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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by beaker » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:47 am

Yesterday the police executed a mentally ill black guy in Ferguson the police said he was attacking them with a knife.
Guess what someone caught the whole thing on video and what the police said was a complete lie.
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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by phuketrichard » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:55 am

NOT in Ferguson but across the city line
just saw the video an for sure the police over reacted.
could have handled it better.
When they shot him ( multiple times) he was still more than 6 feet away from them, walking towards them not charging.

What really got me was so a video of a cop POINTING an assault weapon at the protestors and the camera man yesterday for no reason. :facepalm:

heard he was put on temp leave
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: Ferguson , this is really getting out of hand

Post by OrangeDragon » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:06 am

I have been going over this with my facebook friends... knife attackers are legal to use lethal force on within 21 feet because of the quickness they can close that difference before an officer can react. Coming towards cops with a knife while refusing to drop it... being aggressive towards them, and clearly intending not to stop.

Based on the 21 foot rule, which states a knife attacker can close that distance in such a way as to be a lethal threat (even with momentum after being shot) in 1.5 seconds... 1/3 of that distance would imply 1/3 of that time... or half a second. Half a second to react to an assailant making a charge and fire before he gets close enough his momentum will carry him into you IF the first shot is a kill and not a wound or miss.

How much risk exactly should they be in? Wait till he's stuck the knife in one and THEN he can shoot?

Video for those who haven't seen it:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 81bab.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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