It's not just about vaccines though for me, we could start vaccination in the UK in early 2021 but that doesn't mean the thai/Cambodian borders are going to suddenly open and welcome us with open arms, it doesn't mean also that they will suddenly start issuing VOA again either,

Spigzy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:09 pm

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:24 am If a vaccine came out, I would move heaven and earth to get a shot. I respect the fact that some people won't trust it and all the anti-vaccers will have they time in the sun.

If 60% get the vaccine then herd immunity will be well on the way.

However, the remaining 40% must be given a stark warning. If you present with Covid-19, and have previously refused a vaccination, you go to the isolation hospitals treating Covid-19 and get some oxygen and whatever else they can give you. That's it. No ICU or ventilators and no entry into general hospitals. You go to the modern day leper colonies.

It will take governments will balls, and that's where the problem will be.

Not disagreeing with you Doc, but what makes such a vaccine any better than the flu vaccine- i.e. utterly useless once a new strain mutates. I had flu shots when I was in England, every time I got a bloody awful cold/flu. Took it maybe three years I think before I decided to sod it- and I’ve not had a cold/flu since.

I tend to think this virus, like SARS (for which a vaccine was never finished), will disappear- rending any vaccine useless, just like the flu jab.

Unless it’s a life changer like measles vaccine, etc. I won’t be in the queue - and I would take your “stiff shit for you” no treatment route also. We all have it coming.

Well, if it gives a chance of protection, I'll accept that chance. I won't assume it is a perfect shield, but hopefully better than nothing.

As for the flu shot, I've never had one. I got proper flu for about 10 days over Xmas 2008 and previously when I was very young, (early 90's). Nothing other than that and virtually no colds to speak of that lasted more than a day. I think I have a pretty good immune system so maybe I would be ok with a dose of Covid-19, but I would rather not find out that hard way that I am wrong.

I think SARS disappeared because it could be contained - just. This thing is now endemic in Europe, and in North, Central and South America, Russia, the middle east and the Indian Sub continent. I can't see how it will just die out, it's only just got started.

Some hope

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54873105

Here we go boys and girls!!!

Covid-19 vaccine candidate is 90% effective, says manufacturer

A vaccine against Covid-19 is in sight, with the announcement of the first interim results in large-scale trials showing the Pfizer/BioNTech candidate is 90% effective, according to the manufacturers, whose analysis shows a much better performance than most experts had hoped for.

The high percentage of those protected makes the findings compelling. Regulators have said they would approve a vaccine that is just 50% effective – protecting half those who get it. The company says there have been no serious side-effects.

“Today is a great day for science and humanity. The first set of results from our phase 3 Covid-19 vaccine trial provides the initial evidence of our vaccine’s ability to prevent Covid-19,” said Dr Albert Bourla, the Pfizer chairman and CEO.

“We are reaching this critical milestone in our vaccine development program at a time when the world needs it most with infection rates setting new records, hospitals nearing over-capacity and economies struggling to reopen.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... r-biontech

I know this is nitpicking, but it's slightly dodgy reporting on that 90% figure:

The Guardian wrote:So far, 94 people have become infected with Covid-19 – this is three times more than the company originally planned, but since the analysis shows that 90% had not received the vaccine, it implies that no more than eight people had received it.

If 90% of people that caught Covid-19 were in the placebo group, this doesn't mean the vaccination is 90% effective.

Simplified maths to illustrate: assuming 50% of the testing group got the placebo (I know it's usually less), if 50% of the infected people turned out to be in the placebo group, you wouldn't have a 50% effective vaccine - you'd have a 0% effective vaccine, because clearly being in one group or another made no difference to your chances. If 40% of infected were in the placebo group, you wouldn't have a 40% effective vaccine, you'd have an anti-vaccine that literally increased the chances of covid.

I say it's nitpicking because it still means it's likely about 85% (assuming a 1:2 ratio of placebo:vaccine group size), which is still good news, but that's still 50% more people are gonna catch covid than would do with a 90% vaccine.

Either that or it actually is 90% effective, and the paragraph I've quoted above was badly written.

A little confusing what Van Tam just said regarding the pro's and con's of this vaccine, the good news is that it appears to stop you being sick from the rona, but they are not sure if it stops transmission, no country is going to open up their borders just because the barang doesn't get sick, only to go on and infect the locals, who they think may become ill

DaveG wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:02 am A little confusing what Van Tam just said regarding the pro's and con's of this vaccine, the good news is that it appears to stop you being sick from the rona, but they are not sure if it stops transmission, no country is going to open up their borders just because the barang doesn't get sick, only to go on and infect the locals, who they think may become ill

To be clear, they’re not sure because measuring it wasn’t part of the trial, as opposed to there being some specific thing to put it in doubt.

If it prevents you from being infected, as this vaccine appears to do for 90%, you can not pass it on.
You cannot be a carrier without being infected.

But how do you/Cambodia (eg) know if you are one of the 10% that can still be infected after vaccination?
It seems to me that testing will need to continue to be part of the travel package for this reason. ??
and maybe the quarantine. ??

From the Guardian:
5h ago 15:14
Kate Connolly

Professor Dr Uğur Şahin and his wife Özlem Türecki, both of whom are the children of Turkish immigrants to Germany, are being described as the masterminds behind the Covid 19 vaccine which, it has been announced this morning, has been shown in large-scale trials to be 90 per cent effective.

An article by Spiegel magazine last month, describes the professor as waiting in a state of “severe tension” with his team of 500 scientists at the German company Biontech in Mainz, for the results of the study which has just emerged, offering the first optimistic news on coronavirus for months, and causing euphoria on the markets.

Some 44,000 participants received either the vaccine, known as BNT162b2 or a placebo. Şahin, described by Spiegel as a quiet, emphatic man of few words, told the magazine he was aware that “every week counts”, and that his vaccine was capable of saving hundreds of thousands of lives if it worked.

The company specialises in mRNA agents, a molecule which is an essential component of human biology, serving as a messenger which transports the ‘building instructions’ between the genome of the cells and the cells’ protein ‘factories’.

Already in January long before Germany entered its first lockdown, under Şahin’s leadership, Biotech established the make up of Coronavirus’ genetic information and within two days it had produced the suitable RNA and began immediately with the first experiments. Within a short time Biontech had already produced 20 vaccine candidates.

Şahin told Der Spiegel that even the scientists were surprised at the speed of the results.A teacher at the University of Mainz, initially as a professor for Oncology, Şahin is described as a natural educator - who has continued to assist doctoral students even whilst dedicated to the intense work on the vaccine - and a reluctant businessman.

He has long been considered one of the world’s leading cancer researchers, but qualified as a professor in the field of immunology. He insists that cancer and coronavirus are closely related. “We see ourselves as immunology engineers,” he said. “We want to instruct the immune system to protect us from certain illnesses.”

Şahin and Biontech’s lack of experience in bringing a new medicine out of the research lab and turning it into a global product available worldwide, prompted it to join forces with the US pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, earlier this year.Spiegel was requested not to reveal the exact location of Şahin’s office at the Biontech headquarters. It described ‘muscular bodyguards’ watching over the building’s entrance, and said the firm had been offered protection by Germany’s intelligence service against cyber attacks.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... 447a5e6ea0