phuketrichard wrote:4 floors have been around for ever. and its mostly Filipino maids out for the night, they are not hostess bars( like those in PP) as such but bars where locals, expats an freelancers hang out. Some of them have some good live music
and you will find some thai's on tourist visas.
Legal,,, not by a long shot.

NO idea why Singapore allows it as u have Geylang nearby which is legal
http://geylangredlightdistrict.com/singapore-brothels/

The top floors have a bunch of hostess bars. The bottom floors are mostly 'freelance bars'.

Not just Filipino maids. There are girls from all over Asia, and even the odd Russian or African.

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phuketrichard wrote:AND I THOUGHT SLAVERY WAS GONE;

this is so degrading on so many levels

Go to the Bukit Timah Shopping Centre, a 1970s mall in central Singapore, and you will find five levels of brightly lit rooms and galleries called "Homekeeper" and "Budget Maid". Inside these rooms, dozens of women sit in a listless, artificial silence. They nod respectfully as you enter, and some watch closely as you speak to staff. You might take one home with you - for two years, or longer.

The women, domestic workers, come from Indonesia, the Philippines, and Myanmar. They sit beneath garish signs and posters, testifying to their friendliness and industriousness, or advertising "super promo" rates and "special discounts".

A multimillion dollar industry

Bukit Timah and other shopping centres like it are the culmination of networks and organisations extending from Singapore to various parts of Southeast Asia: from brokers who recruit women from poor countries, to training centres that prepare women for life abroad, to "runners" who ferry domestic workers from airports to shopping centres, and finally to the employment agencies themselves, of which there are hundreds in Singapore, competing in what is effectively a multimillion dollar industry. Wham says that there are currently 215,000 domestic workers in Singapore.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 40207.html

I am really surprised at how hyped this article and thread is. Certainly there are issues about the treatment of lower-end imported labor in Singapore, but a lot of comments here are beyond hyperbole.

I lived in Singapore for many years. Yes there are many agencies in places like Bukit Timah Plaza and more famously Lucky Plaza.

Yes these Girls are often required to "present" themselves to potential employers --- typically a middle aged expat wife or higher end local housewife who wants to speak to some after perusing the bios presented by the agent. Typically the potential employer wants to use her "female intuition" to assess a potential maid before bringing her into her house. Keep in mind that "maids" in Singapore (more commonly called DHs for Domestic Helpers) are not just cleaners but serve as caretakers for the children etc.

so big deal --- they must 'present themselves' to potential employers -- hardly a 'fishbowl' although i guess there might be some logistical similarities.

As to conditions in the Maid Agencies. Certainly not great --- small foam mattresses on the floor and only basic rice and noodle dishes provided. However the vast majority of these ladies are placed with an employer within one to two weeks max (and many within days). Since the agencies are legally responsible for these ladies until they are placed with an employer what else are they to do with them until they are placed -- put them on the street?

The real abuse comes in two forms ---

1) Since the DH market is quite competitive many agencies exploit the dh side of the equation so they can maintain competitiveness on the buyers side. Thus hidden fees and marked up commissions are sadly too common and many DHs will work well over a year before actually earning money for themselves.

2) Abuse in households can be high. Not necessarily physical or sexual abuse (although it sometimes happens) but being forced to work 16 hour days, suffer through constant emotional abuse, denied their holidays and Sundays off. For these reasons most DHs prefer working in Western or Japanese Households as they tend to treat DHs as extensions of the family. Chinese (Including Singaporean Chinese) and Korean employers are the least preferred for the reasons listed above.

I think the article is barking up the wrong tree.

phuketrichard wrote: ... and its mostly Filipino maids out for the night ...

NO idea why Singapore allows it as u have Geylang nearby which is legal
http://geylangredlightdistrict.com/singapore-brothels/

Utter nonsense! Orchard towers (OT or 4 floors of whores) has no maids at all except on Sunday afternoons where the place serves as an alternative party place to Lucky Plaza when Filipina maids get the day off.

The hookers in OT are as in many places in Asia -- Ladies often trafficked through "agents" who come in on 30 day tourist entries -- do a couple of Visa runs to neighboring johor -- and ply their trade.

the more 'amateur' ones then go home while the 'trafficked' ones are sent off to Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong, seoul etc.

Rain Dog wrote:

phuketrichard wrote:AND I THOUGHT SLAVERY WAS GONE;

this is so degrading on so many levels

Go to the Bukit Timah Shopping Centre, a 1970s mall in central Singapore, and you will find five levels of brightly lit rooms and galleries called "Homekeeper" and "Budget Maid". Inside these rooms, dozens of women sit in a listless, artificial silence. They nod respectfully as you enter, and some watch closely as you speak to staff. You might take one home with you - for two years, or longer.

The women, domestic workers, come from Indonesia, the Philippines, and Myanmar. They sit beneath garish signs and posters, testifying to their friendliness and industriousness, or advertising "super promo" rates and "special discounts".

A multimillion dollar industry

Bukit Timah and other shopping centres like it are the culmination of networks and organisations extending from Singapore to various parts of Southeast Asia: from brokers who recruit women from poor countries, to training centres that prepare women for life abroad, to "runners" who ferry domestic workers from airports to shopping centres, and finally to the employment agencies themselves, of which there are hundreds in Singapore, competing in what is effectively a multimillion dollar industry. Wham says that there are currently 215,000 domestic workers in Singapore.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 40207.html

I am really surprised at how hyped this article and thread is. Certainly there are issues about the treatment of lower-end imported labor in Singapore, but a lot of comments here are beyond hyperbole.

I lived in Singapore for many years. Yes there are many agencies in places like Bukit Timah Plaza and more famously Lucky Plaza.

Yes these Girls are often required to "present" themselves to potential employers --- typically a middle aged expat wife or higher end local housewife who wants to speak to some after perusing the bios presented by the agent. Typically the potential employer wants to use her "female intuition" to assess a potential maid before bringing her into her house. Keep in mind that "maids" in Singapore (more commonly called DHs for Domestic Helpers) are not just cleaners but serve as caretakers for the children etc.

so big deal --- they must 'present themselves' to potential employers -- hardly a 'fishbowl' although i guess there might be some logistical similarities.

As to conditions in the Maid Agencies. Certainly not great --- small foam mattresses on the floor and only basic rice and noodle dishes provided. However the vast majority of these ladies are placed with an employer within one to two weeks max (and many within days). Since the agencies are legally responsible for these ladies until they are placed with an employer what else are they to do with them until they are placed -- put them on the street?

The real abuse comes in two forms ---

1) Since the DH market is quite competitive many agencies exploit the dh side of the equation so they can maintain competitiveness on the buyers side. Thus hidden fees and marked up commissions are sadly too common and many DHs will work well over a year before actually earning money for themselves.

2) Abuse in households can be high. Not necessarily physical or sexual abuse (although it sometimes happens) but being forced to work 16 hour days, suffer through constant emotional abuse, denied their holidays and Sundays off. For these reasons most DHs prefer working in Western or Japanese Households as they tend to treat DHs as extensions of the family. Chinese (Including Singaporean Chinese) and Korean employers are the least preferred for the reasons listed above.

I think the article is barking up the wrong tree.

Nicely presented rational response RD.

Satiated Parrot wrote:

Sailorman wrote:Richard: Lucky Mall does have "employment agencies." I didn't see any "fish bowls" but there are agencies with girls setting around. Last year I was looking for a hearing-aid batt. and the company was in Lucky mall, and the company was very hard to find, so I saw every floor accessible to the public. You have to remember, prostitution is legal in Singapore. You got to love a place that has a mall nicknamed "The four floors of whores." (Orchard Towers.)

Brothels are legal if they're registered, I think. Orchard Towers is mostly hostess bars and freelancers; the freelancers technically aren't doing something legal, but a blind eye is turned. That's my understanding, anyway.

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Singapore has a small number of "government approved' brothels that are targeted exclusively to singapore men. as a barang or ang moh you would never get in. The girls there are checked regulary for STDs. This probably makes up less than 1% of the prostitution trade in Singapore.

The rest is as elsewhere in SEA -- lagely imports from Vietnam, Philippines, China, and Thailand. In Singapore prostitution is legal but solicitation is not.

Singapore "tolerates" the industry because almost half of it's population is foreign born and a hugely disproportionate percentage of those are male. Thus the government is willing to look the other way when Horny Barang go to Orchard Towers or lower scale labor from India, Malaysia, China go to Geyleng. They would rather have this then having these issues spill over into the local female community (via rape, molest etc), as 99.99% of hookers in these areas are not Singaporean.

Ang moh are allowed in the "legal brothels", it's just that no-one really goes there as they're apparently filthy and gross.

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Satiated Parrot wrote:Ang moh are allowed in the "legal brothels", it's just that no-one really goes there as they're apparently filthy and gross.

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Cannot claim any first hand experience and not quite sure which brothels you are talking about but I am pretty sure that foreigners are not allowed in (whether this is due to the law or just the discretion of the "manager" is not clear to me).

I am talking specifically about the 'government regulated' venues. These are typically small houses or shop-houses with red lanterns hanging out in front of them. There used to be quite a few on the side-streets off of Neil Road but these were shut down and I believe are now limited to a few side-streets adjacent to the main red-light part of Geyleng.

As part of a project, a Singaporean man I know actually visited one (without actually having sex with the girl). The experience was far from "filthy and gross", in fact it is what you would expect from a SingGov regulated venue --- sterile, impersonal, and remarkably efficient. Upon entry he was asked to present his national ID card which was then entered into a computer--- no card = no entry. He was then briefed on required use of condom, showering first, and queried as to STDs. From there he took a seat in a waiting area --- in queue (this is singapore after all) next to three older Singapore men all sitting with their hands crossed on their laps. He waited for his name to be called, was handed a condom and told he had 30 minutes in the room with the girl. The room itself, clean, generic and with a fresh change of bedding.

A rather surreal experience I would think and I think we can agree that no ang Moh would want to go in (just not for the reasons you site).

I suspect these venues are rapidly dying off as even the lower end punters who cannot afford a flight and stay in Bangkok are now more likely to ferry over to Bataam (talk about a depressing place) or cross over to Johore Baru. i think these government 'approved' places only address those older local males who (for whatever reason) no longer have access to female companionship and are too conservative to venture into 'dangerous' neighboring Malaysia or the nearby Indonesian islands.

Relevant to the topic --- an article on Cambodian Maids in Singapore.

Worth reading, although some of the story seems a bit dodgy.

I am guessing that they might be using the term "maids" differently as Cambodian household DHs would not be much in demand, due to language and cultural barriers. Most likely they are referring to some type of industrial cleaners (Although I cannot be sure)

http://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/maids ... ore-63194/