Brexit deal has been reached
Re: Brexit deal has been reached
The Cabinet may have signed off on her deal with the European Union, but it remains deeply divided.
The five-hour meeting in Downing Street ran to almost double its intended length, as ministers engaged in what Ms May described as a “detailed and impassioned debate”. The British media reports up to 11 of them spoke out against the deal.
Meanwhile, the prominent Brexiteers not bound by Cabinet solidarity vented their fury. Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg said the deal was “worse than the gossip and the rumour and the leaks”.“Now that I’ve seen it, it’s worse than I thought,” he told ITV.
“It fails the Prime Minister’s own promises, and that’s the most concerning thing, because a Prime Minister must not promise one thing and do another.”
Mr Rees-Mogg has written to every Conservative MP explaining why they should oppose it.Former Brexit minister Steve Baker predicted the agreement “will be in bits in a couple of days”. Boris Johnson, who resigned as Ms May’s foreign secretary over Brexit, said it was “vassal state stuff” and “utterly unacceptable to anyone who agrees with democracy”.
UKIP, the controversial minor party which spent years campaigning for Brexit, described the deal as “abject surrender” and urged its supporters to “fight back”. Its former leader Nigel Farage said it was “the worst deal in history” and “any Cabinet member who is a genuine Brexiteer must now resign or never be trusted again”.
Ms May’s former chief of staff Nick Timothy wrote a scathing piece for the UK Telegraph, labelling the agreement a “capitulation” to Europe. “British compromises were inevitable. But the proposal presented to Cabinet is a capitulation,” he said. “Worse, it is a capitulation not only to Brussels, but to the fears of the British negotiators themselves, who have shown by their actions that they never believed Brexit can be a success. This includes, I say with the heaviest of hearts, the Prime Minister.”
You may wonder why it matters that a few backbenchers and former staffers have come out so vociferously against the deal. It’s because nothing can actually happen unless it is approved by a majority in Britain’s parliament. Ms May leads a minority government, and a large chunk of her own party could vote against her, forcing her to rely on support from minor parties or even the Labour opposition.
If her proposal is voted down, it could make her leadership untenable and force a change of prime minister. It’s always illuminating to examine the front pages of Britain’s newspapers amid a major event like this. This time, there is a rough consensus that Ms May is on borrowed time. She will need a majority of 326 votes in parliament, and there are only 316 Tory MPs, not all of whom will support her Brexit plan. So, where could the votes come from?
Today the Prime Minister spoke to Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, Scottish National Party leader Nicola Sturgeon and Democratic Unionist Party leader Arlene Foster, all of whom sounded unconvinced. “We had a frank meeting tonight with the Prime Minister lasting almost an hour. She is fully aware of our position and concerns,” Ms Foster said. Her party is currently propping up Ms May’s government by guaranteeing supply.
“It is obvious that the Prime Minister can barely unite her Cabinet on this deal and it is also increasingly clear that she will struggle to get a majority for it in parliament,” Ms Sturgeon said. “No one should be effectively blackmailed into a choice between the frying pan and the fire.” Mr Corbyn said the deal would result in a “catastrophic series of consequences” and “neither of these options (Ms May’s deal or no deal at all) is acceptable”.
It’s not looking good then. Ms May might even be jettisoned from office before the vote takes place. The Sun reports she could face a leadership contest within days. If 48 Tory backbenchers request a vote, the party will have no choice but to call one. What will happen if Ms May falls? That is anyone’s guess. But it certainly won’t be pretty. https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy ... f7148527b1
The five-hour meeting in Downing Street ran to almost double its intended length, as ministers engaged in what Ms May described as a “detailed and impassioned debate”. The British media reports up to 11 of them spoke out against the deal.
Meanwhile, the prominent Brexiteers not bound by Cabinet solidarity vented their fury. Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg said the deal was “worse than the gossip and the rumour and the leaks”.“Now that I’ve seen it, it’s worse than I thought,” he told ITV.
“It fails the Prime Minister’s own promises, and that’s the most concerning thing, because a Prime Minister must not promise one thing and do another.”
Mr Rees-Mogg has written to every Conservative MP explaining why they should oppose it.Former Brexit minister Steve Baker predicted the agreement “will be in bits in a couple of days”. Boris Johnson, who resigned as Ms May’s foreign secretary over Brexit, said it was “vassal state stuff” and “utterly unacceptable to anyone who agrees with democracy”.
UKIP, the controversial minor party which spent years campaigning for Brexit, described the deal as “abject surrender” and urged its supporters to “fight back”. Its former leader Nigel Farage said it was “the worst deal in history” and “any Cabinet member who is a genuine Brexiteer must now resign or never be trusted again”.
Ms May’s former chief of staff Nick Timothy wrote a scathing piece for the UK Telegraph, labelling the agreement a “capitulation” to Europe. “British compromises were inevitable. But the proposal presented to Cabinet is a capitulation,” he said. “Worse, it is a capitulation not only to Brussels, but to the fears of the British negotiators themselves, who have shown by their actions that they never believed Brexit can be a success. This includes, I say with the heaviest of hearts, the Prime Minister.”
You may wonder why it matters that a few backbenchers and former staffers have come out so vociferously against the deal. It’s because nothing can actually happen unless it is approved by a majority in Britain’s parliament. Ms May leads a minority government, and a large chunk of her own party could vote against her, forcing her to rely on support from minor parties or even the Labour opposition.
If her proposal is voted down, it could make her leadership untenable and force a change of prime minister. It’s always illuminating to examine the front pages of Britain’s newspapers amid a major event like this. This time, there is a rough consensus that Ms May is on borrowed time. She will need a majority of 326 votes in parliament, and there are only 316 Tory MPs, not all of whom will support her Brexit plan. So, where could the votes come from?
Today the Prime Minister spoke to Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, Scottish National Party leader Nicola Sturgeon and Democratic Unionist Party leader Arlene Foster, all of whom sounded unconvinced. “We had a frank meeting tonight with the Prime Minister lasting almost an hour. She is fully aware of our position and concerns,” Ms Foster said. Her party is currently propping up Ms May’s government by guaranteeing supply.
“It is obvious that the Prime Minister can barely unite her Cabinet on this deal and it is also increasingly clear that she will struggle to get a majority for it in parliament,” Ms Sturgeon said. “No one should be effectively blackmailed into a choice between the frying pan and the fire.” Mr Corbyn said the deal would result in a “catastrophic series of consequences” and “neither of these options (Ms May’s deal or no deal at all) is acceptable”.
It’s not looking good then. Ms May might even be jettisoned from office before the vote takes place. The Sun reports she could face a leadership contest within days. If 48 Tory backbenchers request a vote, the party will have no choice but to call one. What will happen if Ms May falls? That is anyone’s guess. But it certainly won’t be pretty. https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy ... f7148527b1
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Re: Brexit deal has been reached
I find it strange the politicians are making this Brexit a lot more difficult by bickering and being obtuse.
The British spoke now do your jobs.
The British spoke now do your jobs.
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Re: Brexit deal has been reached
Some of the Brits that spoke realized what they had signed up for.....davegorman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 am I find it strange the politicians are making this Brexit a lot more difficult by bickering and being obtuse.
The British spoke now do your jobs.
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Re: Brexit deal has been reached
I think it’s the confusion caused by the whole mess. As a European I am quite impressed this is happening and I think the EU will eventually break up, but not for at least 10 years.hanno wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:25 amSome of the Brits that spoke realized what they had signed up for.....davegorman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 am I find it strange the politicians are making this Brexit a lot more difficult by bickering and being obtuse.
The British spoke now do your jobs.
Re: Brexit deal has been reached
But the voting was contentious and to a large extent the voting took place under false premise fueled by a eurosceptic press. Look at the voting spread.davegorman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 am I find it strange the politicians are making this Brexit a lot more difficult by bickering and being obtuse.
The British spoke now do your jobs.
England voted for Brexit, by 53.4% to 46.6%. Wales also voted for Brexit, with Leave getting 52.5% of the vote and Remain 47.5%. Scotland and Northern Ireland both backed staying in the EU. Scotland backed Remain by 62% to 38%, while 55.8% in Northern Ireland voted Remain and 44.2% Leave.
As the referendum approached, coverage became more intense and more positive. However, the study concluded that “reporting about the advantages of EU membership has come too late and will not convince a public that has been accustomed to EU bashing”.
It was indeed too late and on 23 June 2016 British voters opted to leave the EU by a slim majority after a referendum campaign that will be best remembered for the lies told by leading campaigners.https://ethicaljournalismnetwork.org/re ... and-brexit
For some reason the problem of the border with Northern island was not considered until recently
The UK's 310 mile land border with the EU - between Northern Ireland and EU member the Republic of Ireland - might not have been everyone's big issue during the 2016 referendum campaign, yet it has come to dominate Brexit talks.
Neither side wants to see a return to checkpoints, towers, customs posts or surveillance cameras at the border, in case it reignites the Troubles and disrupts the free cross-border flow of trade and people. But they can't agree on a way to do that.
The EU's solution was to set up a "common regulatory area" after Brexit on the island of Ireland - in effect keeping Northern Ireland in an EU customs union - if no other solution is found during trade talks. Theresa May says this would threaten to split Northern Ireland off from the rest of the UK - something she, and the Democratic Unionist Party, would never accept.https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887
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Re: Brexit deal has been reached
It's more Brexshit than Brexit.
There are people who cannot imagine that there are other ways of life than their own life.
Re: Brexit deal has been reached
How wonderful is democracy.khmerhamster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:55 am Even if they have read the full thing the language and terminology will be so specialist that there will be only a few who understand it all.
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Re: Brexit deal has been reached
That’s immaterial now because the result was leave and they just need to get on with it.Kuroneko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:50 amBut the voting was contentious and to a large extent the voting took place under false premise fueled by a eurosceptic press.davegorman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 am I find it strange the politicians are making this Brexit a lot more difficult by bickering and being obtuse.
The British spoke now do your jobs.
Re: Brexit deal has been reached
So leave.... But they've got no clue how.davegorman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:23 amThat’s immaterial now because the result was leave and they just need to get on with it.Kuroneko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:50 amBut the voting was contentious and to a large extent the voting took place under false premise fueled by a eurosceptic press.davegorman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 am I find it strange the politicians are making this Brexit a lot more difficult by bickering and being obtuse.
The British spoke now do your jobs.
The problem is there's no consensus in the UK, not even consensus inside one party, about how they want to leave..... You can say yes to a divorce, or no to EU membership, but if you have no clue about the future relationship you want after the divorce you make things pretty difficult.
Basically the British politicians have proven to be amateurs, non of the major issues popping up over the last year were ever considered before the vote.
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Re: Brexit deal has been reached
That’s the most frustrating thing.Kammekor wrote:So leave.... But they've got no clue how.davegorman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:23 amThat’s immaterial now because the result was leave and they just need to get on with it.Kuroneko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:50 amBut the voting was contentious and to a large extent the voting took place under false premise fueled by a eurosceptic press.davegorman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 am I find it strange the politicians are making this Brexit a lot more difficult by bickering and being obtuse.
The British spoke now do your jobs.
The problem is there's no consensus in the UK, not even consensus inside one party, about how they want to leave..... You can say yes to a divorce, or no to EU membership, but if you have no clue about the future relationship you want after the divorce you make things pretty difficult.
Basically the British politicians have proven to be amateurs, non of the major issues popping up over the last year were ever considered before the vote.
The Rule Britannia, you lost, just leave, get on with it crowd don’t seem to appreciate the complexities and those who are debating the details are labelled stubborn remainers.
The people spoke. Yes, broadly. But what they spoke about is vague and potentially very, very wide ranging.
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