Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

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kaputt
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Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:12 am

Doomed 737max, 2.plane down in 5 month

I consider myself a frequent flyer but now try to scale back on air travels.

2 types of planes have made me worry about my safety lately. One is Boeing\s 787 Dreamliner which was grounded for several month after battery packs exploded. The 737 was of no concern to me so far. The Game Changer was the 1.crash of the 737max owned by lion air.Now the 2.plane of the same type is down with almost identical symptoms.

Here is a report of what people saw on the ground before the plane hit the ground nose down.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/ ... then-dived
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by markd » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:34 am

the atr72 is another flying mass burial waiting to happen
thru shit to more shit
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:33 pm

UPDATE

Should the Boeing MAX-8 Be Grounded? The FAA Changes Its Story

As one airline after another grounds the airplane, People are left in confusion. Here are the key questions that have to be answered.

Is it safe to board a Boeing 737 MAX-8?

Nobody seems able to come up with a straight answer, particularly in America.

Every day across the rest of the world, airlines and nations are grounding their MAX-8s, the latest being Australia, the U.K., and Singapore.

Understandably, people are spooked by the fact that, in the space of little over four months, 346 people have died in two crashes involving this brand-new model. While investigators have yet to establish the cause of the second crash in Ethiopia, there are strong similarities in the circumstances of that disaster and the previous crash in Indonesia in late October.

Thousands of people are calling airlines to check whether their booked flight involves the MAX-8. The two largest users of the jet in the U.S., Southwest and American Airlines, are trying to assure passengers they consider the airplane safe—Southwest is waiving change fees if passengers want to switch to a different airplane.

But don’t expect either Boeing or the Federal Aviation Administration to help make that decision any easier.

In a self-defeating example of corporate speak, Boeing announced it was making changes to the MAX-8 “that would make an already safe aircraft even safer”—as though safety is not an absolute but is measured in degrees.

RELATED IN WORLD

Ethiopian Air Crash: All 157 Dead, Including Eight Americans

And late Monday, the FAA announced it was giving Boeing a deadline of April to complete those changes—even though neither Boeing nor the FAA had previously revealed the details of what was being changed as a result of the crash of a Lion Air MAX-8 in Indonesia.

So here, in the wake of this trail of obfuscation and evasion, is the situation as best it can be divined:

The MAX-8 is the latest model of the world’s most frequently used single-aisle jet—the 737 series is flying many thousands of flights in most of the world every day.

A new feature was introduced to the flight controls of the MAX-8 that does not exist in previous models. It is the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, MCAS.

Why?

During wind-tunnel tests, it was discovered that when the airplane was in a climbing turn it could enter an aerodynamic stall—that is, its wings would lose lift and jeopardize stability. MCAS—just a few lines of computer code—would be instantly activated without a command from the pilot to counter this. MCAS would move the horizontal stabilizer to force down the airplane’s nose and recover speed and stability.

The action of MCAS is triggered by a sensor near the airplane’s nose. The sensor measures air speed and, crucially, what is called angle of attack, the angle at which the wings are pitched above horizontal.

The Lion Air crash revealed that a flaw in that sensor could, by misreading air speed, automatically activate the MCAS, forcing down the airplane’s nose by using the horizontal stabilizer even though it was not threatened by an aerodynamic stall and, if the pilots did not recognize what was forcing down the nose, a fatal nose dive would follow.

A final report on the Lion Air crash has yet to be made, but it is clear that the pilots did not identify that it was MCAS that was forcing down the nose and they lost a struggle to overcome that action.

Until this point, Boeing had not included a warning about the function of MCAS in the flight manual for the MAX-8 nor as part of the training of pilots converting from earlier model 737s to the new model.

POWERLESS
Lawsuit Claims Boeing ‘Blindfolded’ Pilots in Lion Air Crash

Faced with the likelihood that a rogue sensor was responsible for beginning the sequence that led to the crash, Boeing then said, in a statement issued on Nov. 27, that—regardless of whether or not pilots were aware of the MCAS—they could have regained control from the computers by following a procedure that was standard for another emergency involving the horizontal stabilizer, known as a runaway stabilizer.

(The procedure involves flipping switches to turn off the automatic system, manually resetting the horizontal stabilizer and manually flying the airplane for the rest of the flight.)

Boeing quoted an FAA Emergency Airworthiness Directive, dated Nov. 7, that supported that contention…” as the appropriate procedure to address unintended horizontal stabilizer movement regardless of source.”

In understanding the Boeing and FAA response to the Lion Air crash that quotation is central because it reveals two motives: to shield Boeing from liability for a flawed system and to shift responsibility for the crash from the airplane’s systems to the pilots.

The new FAA statement significantly changes that position (and undercuts Boeing’s defense of the airplane).

It says that “ongoing oversight activities by the FAA include: Boeing’s completion of flight-control system enhancements, which provide reduced reliance on procedures associated with required pilot memory items.”

Translation: Boeing had insisted that the way pilots should respond to any problem with the horizontal stabilizer was part of a checklist that was “a memory item.”

Now it is, apparently, no longer a memory item: Boeing is changing both pilot conversion training and flight manuals to include the existence of the MCAS and guidance on how to handle an errant MCAS action.

No only that, but software changes to MCAS, already underway, include an instant warning to pilots that the system is engaged and a limit to the extent that the system can move the horizontal stabilizer, presumably to inhibit its ability to prevent a nose dive.

And all this is being done with an obvious new note of urgency, to complete the changes by April.

American Airlines is flying 24 MAX-8s and has already installed updated software that warns pilots of the engagement of MCAS. Southwest, which flies 34 of the jets, is in the process of making that change.

None of these steps had previously been revealed. The FAA notice has a very unusual and revealing title: Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community.

This indicates just how much pressure the FAA is under from airlines all over the world. Passengers from 35 different nations were among the 157 people killed in the Ethiopian disaster.

In the absence of any global authority to step up to the plate and respond to public alarm amid the current level of confusion over who actually can be relied upon for airline safety, it is left to Boeing and the FAA to act as the authorities of last resort.

Just how conflicted even experts can be about whether airplane is safe or not was shown when David Soucie, a highly respected former FAA accident inspector, appeared on NPR’s Morning Edition.

The people who boarded Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 never had a chance to consider that decision for themselves.

The highest duty owed to the public by Boeing and the FAA is to ensure that no risks with safety are taken at any point. Until there are definitive answers to both these crashes there are too many unknowns peculiar to the MAX-8 for the public to have confidence in this airplane. It should be grounded.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by GMJS-CEO » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:41 am

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news ... a17af3a2e5

FAA says there is "no basis" to ground the Boeing 737 Max 8
Daniel K. Elwell, the acting administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, said it has conducted a review of the Boeing 737 Max 8 and found "no basis" to ground the aircraft.

"Thus far, our review shows no systematic performance issues and provides no basis to order grounding the aircraft," Elwell said in a statement.

Read his full statement:

The FAA continues to review extensively all available data and aggregate safety performance from operators and pilots of the Boeing 737 MAX. Thus far, our review shows no systematic performance issues and provides no basis to order grounding the aircraft. Nor have other civil aviation authorities provided data to us that would warrant action. In the course of our urgent review of data on the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crash, if any issues affecting the continued airworthiness of the aircraft are identified, the FAA will take immediate and appropriate action.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by Freightdog » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:49 am

kaputt wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:33 pm
UPDATE

Should the Boeing MAX-8 Be Grounded? The FAA Changes Its Story

As one airline after another grounds the airplane, People are left in confusion. Here are the key questions that have to be answered.

Is it safe to board a Boeing 737 MAX-8?

RELATED IN WORLD

Ethiopian Air Crash: All 157 Dead, Including Eight Americans
(Quote trimmed for brevity)


Kaputt
Are these your words, or a cut and paste from an article written but someone else?
If the latter, then a reference to that article would be appropriate, and if the former, what is your expertise in this matter?
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by frank lee bent » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:18 am

buy you some boeing stock and get about $70/share profit in a month
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:17 pm

@freight dog

Update Author: Clive Irving
https://www.thedailybeast.com/should-th ... -its-story


I am not a Boeing Ingeneer or Programmer but... a surviver of the DC10 which had a similar reputation like the one the Boeing 737 Max8 is slowly inching to. My conclusion is the same as Clive Irving ! I would not fly this plane under any circumstances until the mess is cleared up. 2 crashes of this plane model in 5 month with very similar symptoms fail to give me the necessary confidence to fly with this plane. Mostly i disagree with Donald Trump but i think he has a fair point when he says there is way too much Electronics in modern planes and he doesn't want to have Einstein but rather a professional pilot that can actually fly the plane...., just like in the old days.

PS: most recent news have the EU closed it's entire airspace for this plane. Asia is not far behind.

The FACTBOX reveals which Airlines have grounded the Plane sofar :

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKBN1QT1YQ

Contrary to the above the US regulatory body FAA sees no reason just yet to ground the plane:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKBN1QT0P1

Conclusion: My personal opinion on the matter is that apart from the technical aspects of this issue there is a huge financial burden hanging up in the air for Boeing. It's most selling plane for which Boeing has received thousands of orders is now in question and airlines like Lion Air (the first victim) are already working on shifting it's open orders to alternative sources like Airbus.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by kaputt » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:39 pm

Update 2
.By The New York Times
March 13, 2019

• Ethiopia will send overseas for analysis the so-called black boxes — flight data and voice recorders — recovered from the crash site of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, in which 157 people were killed, an airline spokesman said on Wednesday.

At least two pilots, flying United States routes on the same model of Boeing jet involved in two recent crashes, filed incident reports with the federal government that raised concerns about safety and criticized a lack of training on the new plane, the Boeing 737 Max 8. This was back in 2018 !

American air safety experts are trying to persuade their Ethiopian counterparts not to send the flight data to crash investigators in London, The Wall Street Journal reported (Washington wants NTSB to download data from recorders, while African nation’s officials prefer U.K. experts). Instead, they want it examined by the National Transportation Safety Board in the United States.

If you want to be sure that you are not flying this Airplane Model you can check it on : Flightview.com and Flightaware.com
Here you will find all details to your flight.
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by RickyBobby » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:18 pm

Calling Elon Musk. Surely if they have self driving cars, they can fix the software glitch on these planes.
"Dear Lord Baby Jesus, Lyin in a Manger"
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Re: Boeing 737 max - 2.plane down

Post by RickyBobby » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:24 pm

Canadian aviation regulators have joined the U.S. in keeping Boeing Co.’s 737 Max jets in the air, at least for now, a spot of good news for the company as hundreds of its planes around the world have been grounded following the second fatal crash by that model in less than five months.

Transport Canada Civil Aviation said earlier Tuesday it was evaluating evidence and considering all potential actions, but has stopped short of grounding the planes as European, British, and several other countries’ aviation authorities and airlines have done. U.S. airlines, taking their cue from the FAA, have kept the plane in service.

Late Tuesday, FAA Commissioner Daniel Elwell issued a statement, saying: “Thus far, our review shows no systemic performance issues and provides no basis to order grounding the aircraft.”

The global groundings come after a Max 8 jetliner crashed in Ethiopia on Sunday, killing 157 people. In October, the same model was involved in a crash that killed 189 people in Indonesia in eerily similar circumstances.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-ca ... 2019-03-12

Civil aviation authorities and airlines have grounded more than 40 per cent of the world's in-service fleet of Boeing 737 Max 8s — the type of jet involved in an Ethiopian Airlines crash that killed 157 people, including 18 Canadians.

But even after the entire European Union, Australia and others decided to suspend the jet from their airspace Tuesday, Transport Minister Marc Garneau reiterated that Canada has no plans to follow suit.

The U.S. is also allowing the jet to continue to fly.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/boeing-up ... -1.5052471
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