Australia, US and UK form AUKUS a new nuclear defence pact

xandreu · Post by **xandreu** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:27 am

Slightly off-topic for a second -

I heard an interview on the radio with a French government official (can't remember who) and when asked why the French didn't recall the British ambassadors at the same time as recalling the Australian and American ones, the reply was that the French are fully aware that the British had no choice in the deal and it, as it has done for a very long time now, was simply following American orders.

As patronising as that is, it isn't the first time I've heard this kind of talk coming from foreign officials. We have a terrible reputation around the world for being nothing more than a subservient 51st state of America who blindly follows it from one catastrophe into another and is too scared to stand up to it. As that honest government ad touched on, by cosying up in a manage-et-trois kind of way like this, we're not doing ourselves any favours, we become more of a target ourselves, and both Britain and Australia appear weaker on the world stage as countries without the ability to stand up to America.

Apollo91881 · Post by **Apollo91881** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:12 am

xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:49 am
Mostcurious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:56 am As for cancelling the French built submarines. The reasons were the french submarines were to run on old fashioned diesel, they would cost an extortionate 90 billion dollars and wouldn't be ready till 2035 or later. American built nuclear powered submarines do not need to surface regularly, they can stay under water for much longer, and apparently they are also quieter.
But this was what they had agreed to when they signed the contract. That's what contracts are for. So that each party is fully aware of each others responsibilities and obligations and everyone is on the same page as to what is happening. You can't sign a contract and then negotiate a new contract with someone else behind their back and then cancel the original contract because it isn't what you wanted.

If it isn't what you wanted, fine. Don't sign the contract then.

This is international politics among sovereign nations. Within a country contracts are as enforceable as the laws allow. Externally though, what's the mechanism? A strongly worded letter?

mannanman · Post by **mannanman** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:28 am

Today (Monday) some states in Oz are on holiday today labour day/queens birthday (weirdly WA had theres last week!) so maybe they are contemplating their relationship with the 51st state of US.

In the video they say Australia doesn’t have the capacity or capability to run nuclear subs. Do they require much maintenance then?

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:41 am

mannanman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:28 am In the video they say Australia doesn’t have the capacity or capability to run nuclear subs. Do they require much maintenance then?

Here's an opinion piece on that by Marcus Hellyer a senior analyst at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

Submarines that don’t need refuelling still require a nuclear industry

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 58vrw.html

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:49 am

xandreu wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:27 am Slightly off-topic for a second -

I heard an interview on the radio with a French government official (can't remember who) and when asked why the French didn't recall the British ambassadors at the same time as recalling the Australian and American ones, the reply was that the French are fully aware that the British had no choice in the deal and it, as it has done for a very long time now, was simply following American orders.

As patronising as that is, it isn't the first time I've heard this kind of talk coming from foreign officials. We have a terrible reputation around the world for being nothing more than a subservient 51st state of America who blindly follows it from one catastrophe into another and is too scared to stand up to it. As that honest government ad touched on, by cosying up in a manage-et-trois kind of way like this, we're not doing ourselves any favours, we become more of a target ourselves, and both Britain and Australia appear weaker on the world stage as countries without the ability to stand up to America.

Related to your post. Is the UK leading on this or just a good deputy of the US?

Britain wants more AUKUS deals to fight China, Russia

Britain’s new Foreign Secretary Liz Truss wants to build a “Network of Liberty”, forming more security pacts like the AUKUS alliance with countries such as India, Canada and Japan to counter China and Russia. Speaking to the Conservative Party Conference in Manchester, Truss, who is newly appointed to the role, said Britain and its allies must win the “battle of economic influence”.

“On security we are striking new pacts to protect our sea routes, trade routes and freedoms,” Truss told party members. “AUKUS – our new partnership with the US and Australia – will help Australia acquire nuclear-powered submarines and defend their territorial waters.

“We are in talks with Japan about better military access and operational support between our two countries [and] we want closer security ties with key allies like India and Canada in everything from fighting cyber to traditional defence capability,” she said.

Full: https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/ ... 58ww4.html

By the way, there is another AUKUS topic, I'm tempted to merge the 2.

mannanman · Post by **mannanman** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:07 am

Damn Communists.
You’d think China and Russia would be bum chums.

Post by **Clutch Cargo** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:55 pm

John Bingham · Post by **John Bingham** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:18 pm

mannanman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:07 am Damn Communists.
You’d think China and Russia would be bum chums.

They were at each other's necks for decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split

mannanman · Post by **mannanman** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:33 pm

John Bingham wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:18 pm
mannanman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:07 am Damn Communists.
You’d think China and Russia would be bum chums.
They were at each other's necks for decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split

Were?

That’s all good. Everyone can be friends. Marvellous smashing great.

pauloxleyisland · Post by **pauloxleyisland** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:06 pm

clutchcargo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:57 pm
It’s fine to say “fuck I hate Scott Morrison” but what alternative do you suggest. The conversation usually stops there.
Ex copper, 'Mr Fix-it' Peter Dutton? He's the one who torpedoed the French subs project right?

I do like Peter Dutton, and thank fuck he got us out of that French artificial reef deal (if he did)

Australia, US and UK form AUKUS a new nuclear defence pact

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