The decline of the US will be like the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.

It will be along, gradual process, not an overnight one, but anyone who doesn't believe it will happen is either stupid or lying.

Nobody wants to fix it due to the current culture of emotional children getting bent out of shape for speaking the truth.

Also having a president letting millions of illegals doesnt help. How come nobody speaks of the cost of this? or who will get effected.

Well who gets fucked the hardest will be the working poor obviously...like immigrants already in america working for peanuts. Social services will be overworked so the quality will go to shit. And Silicon Vally will be making even more profits using cheap India IT labor.

On the bright side of being an american citizen...I'll take hispanics anyday over what you guys in England have. Boy oh Boy are you in for a very rude surprise in that not so distant future on your lovely immigrants.

Sounds like the illegals are who's paying the cost of the illegals... perhaps that's why nobody is speaking of it?

Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 30 percent and 50 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes:
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/ ... ration.pdf

Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security, money they can't actually reclaim... so they're paying for your grandparents' retirement:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/busin ... =5090&_r=0

The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million illegal immigrants in Texas alone added almost $18 billion to the state's budget, and paid $1.2 billion in state services they used:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrp ... mented.pdf

If you're going to speak on the economic "cost" of something... you should probably make sure there is one first and not just agree with whatever propaganda misinformation sounds good to you.

Congressional Budget Office? If you believe anything they say then I've got a bridge in Snooky that I'll sell you real cheap. The illegal Mexicans and Central Americans make money and send it home. A real drain on the American economy. I've worked for and with Mexican-Americans and they are the most hard working, family centered people I know, but if you are in my country illegally, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way back across the border. Mega agro corporations like ConAgra that stuff Congressmen's PAC funds with millions love the cheap illegal labor.

Yes, I do agree I will take (reluctantly) the Mexicans over the Islamofasicts that England and Europe are being flooded with. Those countries are in for a real dark and surprising near future.

OrangeDragon wrote: Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security, money they can't actually reclaim... so they're paying for your grandparents' retirement:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/busin ... =5090&_r=0

They know eventually they will be given an amnesty and granted citizenship. They will not only reclaim all they paid into the SS system, they will eventually take out 20x more then they put in...and that can be well over 50x more when it comes to medicaid/medicare.

One of the biggest financial problems facing the US now is the time bomb of college student loans, which is well over $1 trillion now. A sizable portion of those loans will never be paid back. Like home ownership, higher education became seen as a human right, as opposed to a serious financial commitment that required personal sacrifice and planning and hard work. Those unpaid loan debts will be assumed by the US government at some point..probably before Obama leaves office via an Executive Order.

Sailor:
"A real drain on the American economy."? How much of one? Really. At most it's a targeted form of FDI, something we praise if they're investing in Cambodia. But god forbid it be invested in a country like Mexico right? It's not a "drain" on the economy... it's a drop or two leaking out of a bucket of water. Exaggerating it's impact is absurd. You don't believe the CBO, do you believe anything that is against what you think you know? Aren't you at all willing to consider the fact you may just be sucking down propaganda with nothing to back it up?

And that cheap labor... it's not even about it being cheap. It's about immigrants being the only ones WILLING to take the jobs. Those jobs are shitty, and the Ag industry has been trying to find other means for employment for decades (including higher wages, provided housing, etc)... Americans just won't do those jobs. It's not 1960 anymore... kids getting out of high school have zero will or desire to go work on a farm as a farmhand or be a busboy. Farmers send their kids to college so they won't have to. But someone still has to... who do you suggest we get to fill those jobs? They're not "taking" American jobs... they're filling a needed niche. Without them the US economy would be seriously hurting.

You talk about legally vs illegally... as someone who's dealt with the immigration process you should know just how fucked up it is. The only people who could pass through it legitimately are people who would never take those low paying, but needed, positions.

Soi:
Only 46% of Hispanic immigrants eligible to naturalize (become citizens) have actually done so. Most of them don't use more welfare than they pay in via taxes:
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/high-s ... mmigration

I agree about the problems with student loans... my biggest complaint with them is that they let you take out a student loan for "anything". They should be reduced to only covering employable degree programs... so there's some hope of paying them back. You want to take a degree in some unemployable field, you're welcome to it... so long as YOU pay for it. I don't agree that they're a "time bomb", as it's just more national debt... which is a much smaller deal than people make it out to be. We can shove a trillion in there and the economy won't even blink. Some headlines, some politicians making it a talking point, but the markets and the revenue system will barely move related to it.

You only need 40 credits to receive full SS benefits (eligible after age 67). You get up to 4 credits per year..one credit for each $1200 you earn. So one could theoretically earn only $4800 per year for 10 years and still be entitled to SS benefits and Medicare. OASDI taxes are 6.2% of salary.

0.062 x $4800 per years x 10 years = $2927 total contribution over 10 years.

The current minimum monthly SS payment = $804, regardless of how much you have put into the system.

So for a $2927 total minimum lifetime contribution you could get $800 per month for life after age 67. This is true for anyone, but is possible that an immigrant could arrive in the US at age 57 and still qualify for those full benefits at age 67, where as someone living here their whole life would have to put more money into the pot. Add insane medicare benefits on top of that and you have a financial disaster waiting to happen. Worse yet, many move back to their home country to live after getting on SS, so that money gets spent there and not back here...only coming back to the US for their health care.

And yet, the other 54% of them paying in and never collecting help to compensate for that. As for moving back... sounds like what a lot of people who've lived in the US their whole lives are doing with SS as well. In fact, I'd wager there is more economic drain from white guys fleeing to the Philippines, Cambodia, Thailand, Mexico, etc leaching their pension money out of the US economy and spending it in foreign countries than from foreigners doing the same and foreigners sending money back home combined.

Of course, all of this is STILL pretending national debt really means anything... as these are federal programs you're talking about. We covered a while back in the thread why it's more of a media "freakout" and political talking point issue than anything to actually be concerned with. Debt piling up and piling up... yet almost zero inflation (the only side effect we would be able to see from such a thing) as a result.

For anyone to even talk about the decline of the American empire is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Just finished the book " Western Power in Asia, Its Slow Rise and Swift Fall, by Arthur Cotterell." It shows the rise and fall of the Dutch, Portuguese, Arab, English, Spanish empires from 1415 on in relationship to Asia, and America is just following the same pattern. Anyone believing America is still a rising economy also believes that the stock market isn't a scam. (Fools and their money are soon parted.) Caveat Emptor (I've still got a great bridge to sell in Sihanoukville if anyone wants a good investment

http://www.thecambodiaherald.com/opinio ... rship-1210
Looks like you just lost the No1 spot OD.