an amazing number. I bet 100% none of you ( outside maybe Sailorman) dodn't know about "accidental americans"?

But consider that many of these renunciants are what I call ‘accidental Americans’.
This could be someone born in, say, Thailand, to an American father and Thai mother.
Automatically at birth, the child is a US citizen due to his father’s nationality.
He grows up in Thailand for his entire life, barely ever setting foot on US soil.
He goes on to have a successful life, until, one day, he receives a ‘Dear John’ letter in the mail from the US government congratulating him on all his success.
“And oh by the way you owe us 20 years of back taxes.”
This has happened countless times. That’s because the United States is almost the only country in the world that has what’s called “citizenship based taxation”.

In other words, if you are a US citizen, you are required to file tax returns and pay tax to the US government, regardless of where you live, even if you are an accidental American who has never even been to the United States.

What’s really amazing is that when these accidental Americans get fed up and renounce their citizenship to put a stop to this madness, they aren’t allowed to do so until they settle their tax bills.

https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/173 ... e2c9e5ba30

phuketrichard wrote:an amazing number. I bet 100% none of you ( outside maybe Sailorman) dodn't know about "accidental americans"?

Sailorman would give them all guns; problem solved.

it costs over $2k to renounce too.

Renunciation fee[edit]
Renunciation of U.S. citizenship was free until July 2010, at which time a fee of $450 was established.[45] An increase to $2,350, effective September 12, 2014, was justified as "reflective of the true cost" of processing.[46]
In 2014, the State Department announced its intention to increase the fee for renunciation of U.S. citizenship by 422% from $450 to $2,350.[47] This followed a fee increase of approximately 220% in 2013.[48] The increase took effect in January 2015.[49]
On October 26, 2015 Forbes reported that during 2014, American dual citizens in Canada who were trying to renounce their U.S. citizenship created a backlog at the U.S. Consulate in Toronto.[50]

Taxation[edit]
In 1996, the United States changed its tax law to include a provision to "name and shame" renunciants. The Department of the Treasury became obligated to publish, in the Federal Register, a quarterly list of the names of those citizens who renounce their citizenship.[51][52] Only the names are published, but by counting the number of names in each list, media organizations are able to infer the number of renunciants each quarter. The 1996 law, known as the Reed Amendment, included a provision to bar entry to any individual "who officially renounces United States citizenship and who is determined by the Attorney General to have renounced United States citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation by the United States."[51]

In 2008, Congress enacted the Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Act. The law imposes a penalty—an "exit tax" or expatriation tax—on certain people who give up their U.S. citizenship or long-term permanent residence.[53] Effective June 2008, U.S. citizens who renounce their citizenship are subject under certain circumstances to an expatriation tax, which is meant to extract, from the expatriate, taxes that would have been paid had he or she remained a citizen. All property of a covered expatriate is deemed sold for its fair market value on the day before the expatriation date, which usually results in a capital gain, which is taxable income.[54] Eduardo Saverin, a Brazilian-born co-founder of Facebook, renounced his U.S. citizenship just before the company's expected initial public offering. The timing prompted media speculation that the act was motivated by potential U.S. tax obligations.[28]

In 2015, the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, threatened to renounced his U.S. citizenship after the IRS asserted that he owed tax on the gain on the sale of his house in London. (Of course, he had threatened to do so in 2006 as well.) [55] Since the enactment of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) of 2010, the numbers of people renouncing U.S. citizenship have tripled from about 1,000 per year to 3,415 in 2014.[56] The numbers have spiked in the 3rd quarter of 2015 at 1,426. The increase surpassed the previous record of 1,335 for the first three months of 2015[57]

Isn't it, or wasn't it, the case that - in theory - it was impermissible for persons with U.S. citizenship to be citizens of another country at the same time?

used to be. not anymore.
i was the first yank thru the gates in Oz, i had a couple of years of conversations with the state department prior to getting my USA passport back.
they tried to get me to renounce at first.
i argued points of law, and they eventually saw the light.
a lot depends on the oath of the country issuing the 2nd passport.
many countries have a requirement that you specifically renounce allegiance to the mother country when granting citizenship.
Australia had removed that clause from the oath just 6 months before i was naturalized, thus the USA state department saw no further impediment.

wonder what that figure wld b if trump became president

The IRS are assh*les! My father a vet of WWII said that if it every came down to a revolution in America he would be down to the IRS office with his shotgun. (I believe Trump will do some house cleaning in that office.)

The IRS is difficult to deal with and I've had run ins with them. I overloaded their offices with Freedom-of-Information requests, contacted my Congressman, filed tons of paperwork, showed them laws they had violated, and singled out the main lady who was heading up my problems. I believe she is now probably heading up the IRS office in Coldbay, Alaska.

I believe the IRS has no jurisdiction in a foreign country so their asking for money is a mot point unless a person applies for or already has a US passport. The can ask your home country to let the IRS take you to America for prosecution, but that's a long process.(and they probably have to get you a US passport for free.) if you have no property in America and no bank account there, they cannot attach it. (you just can't visit America) You can also negotiate with the IRS for reduced payments and it would seem if the IRS believes you are an American, you can walk into any US Embassy, show the paperwork, get a US passport and fly to America that very day. Some people would almost kill for the IRS naming them an American on official documents.

no. the USA asserts jurisdiction over it's citizens regardless of where they may be in tax matters:

Unlike most nations, the United States also attempts extraterritorial application of U.S. personal tax laws. The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act is an extension of this concept, which focuses on enforcement.

Extraterritorial jurisdiction (ETJ) is the legal ability of a government to exercise authority beyond its normal boundaries.
Any authority can claim ETJ over any external territory they wish. However, for the claim to be effective in the external territory (except by the exercise of force), it must be agreed either with the legal authority in the external territory, or with a legal authority which covers both territories. When unqualified, ETJ usually refers to such an agreed jurisdiction, or it will be called something like "claimed ETJ".
The phrase may also refer to a country's laws extending beyond its boundaries in the sense that they may authorise the courts of that country to enforce their jurisdiction against parties appearing before them in respect of things that they did outside that country. This does not depend on the co-operation of other countries, since the affected people are within the relevant country (or their case is being heard by a court of that country). For example, many countries have laws which give their criminal courts jurisdiction to try prosecutions for piracy or terrorism committed outside their national boundaries. Sometimes such laws only apply to nationals of that country, and sometimes they may apply to anyone.
more here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterr ... risdiction

most banks in the world now require all American that open accounts to;
1, show their passport and
2. give their SS card number,
any American open an account in Cambodia recently?

I know when i opened my accounts in Thailand i ONLY showed passport), but have heard that new accounts being opened they must provide their ss number

First the IRS has to prove to the resident country that the person is an American, and do that in the court of that country.

BTW/ This looks like a real business opportunity. You run ads in papers for people that believe their father's were Americans, but don't have enough paperwork to prove it to the US Embassy/government. You take what paperwork they do have and as an upright American send the paperwork into the IRS stating that these people scammed the IRS and didn't pay money to the US government for years. When the IRS sends this person paperwork demanding money, this person takes the paperwork to the US Embassy and demands a US passport due to the fact that a US government agency and people at that agency state the person is an American. It is a felony for a US government employee to lie on official documents (all but Hillary Clinton.) You bill by the hour and make $$$ helping this new America get home. This person as an American with documentation from the US government and on US soil of the Embassy turns themselves in for cheating the IRS and demands a hearing with the IRS in America.

Once this "new" America gets to America (free ride back provided by IRS) and has no money they can apply for welfare, free housing, food stamps, etc. Since they have no job or money they negotiate with the IRS for reduced payments of money owed. Once they agree to IRS terms, they cannot be prosecuted for money owed. Welcome home "new" American and welcome to the free welfare give away program(s).

If you can't beat the system, use the system.