Should elephant-riding in Thailand (and elsewhere) be banned ? Or what should be done ?
On Wednesday a Thai elephant in Chang Mai province killed his mahout while taking a tourist family on a ride. Very sad.
In June, also in Thailand, a man was killed by an elephant while eating in a restaurant: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... restaurant
This should be raising some serious questions about elephant-riding and treatment of elephants. I admit that I have ridden on elephants before, but don't think I would do it now.

Agence France-Presse in Bangkok.
An elephant in northern Thailand killed its handler before running off into the jungle with three terrified Chinese tourists still on its back, police said.
..Police said that on Wednesday morning a Chinese family of three – a father, mother and a young child – were taking a ride on the male elephant when it turned suddenly on its new keeper, goring him to death...

Rides are a popular and lucrative tourist activity but many animal rights groups say it is cruel and stressful for the animals...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/a ... e-tourists

I think I'd prioritize the end of slavery in Thailand over elephant rights... but that's just me.

come up with a suggestion on how a Mahout is supposed to feed his elephant
I visited a few sanctuaries in Thailand over the years and feel its a great idea, especially the ones where they are allowed to roam, but it costs $$$

The treatment of them is another matter, an there's some terrible video's floating around how they were trained, but i think nowadays's its not as it was before. ( or so i hope)

You have a higher chance of dying on the roads in Thailand, than on an elephant

TheGrinchSR wrote:I think I'd prioritize the end of slavery in Thailand over elephant rights... but that's just me.

We could also think about more than one thing at a time if we put our minds to it.

phuketrichard wrote:come up with a suggestion on how a Mahout is supposed to feed his elephant
I visited a few sanctuaries in Thailand over the years and feel its a great idea, especially the ones where they are allowed to roam, but it costs $$$

The treatment of them is another matter, an there's some terrible video's floating around how they were trained, but i think nowadays's its not as it was before. ( or so i hope)

You have a higher chance of dying on the roads in Thailand, than on an elephant

It's a question I'm asking. If they stop elephant-rides then what to do with the elephants ? Two people killed in 2/3 months is not a lot, but I'm sure it got more (bad) press than the many road accidents. It's also a sign that these elephants are not happy.

Elephant sanctuaries are a great idea, but as you say cost big bucks, and can they generate enough revenue to support the 4000 (according to the article) elephants in captivity ? And what about the 4000 mahouts ?
I don't have the answers, but I think that people should be asking questions because the present situation is apparently not good enough.

No, unless they restart using elephants for timber extraction,they would have no value otherwise.How much are you willing to pay to feed them each year?

nailed it mr hammer

Anchor Moy wrote:

TheGrinchSR wrote:I think I'd prioritize the end of slavery in Thailand over elephant rights... but that's just me.

We could also think about more than one thing at a time if we put our minds to it.

phuketrichard wrote:come up with a suggestion on how a Mahout is supposed to feed his elephant
I visited a few sanctuaries in Thailand over the years and feel its a great idea, especially the ones where they are allowed to roam, but it costs $$$

The treatment of them is another matter, an there's some terrible video's floating around how they were trained, but i think nowadays's its not as it was before. ( or so i hope)

You have a higher chance of dying on the roads in Thailand, than on an elephant

It's a question I'm asking. If they stop elephant-rides then what to do with the elephants ? Two people killed in 2/3 months is not a lot, but I'm sure it got more (bad) press than the many road accidents. It's also a sign that these elephants are not happy.

Elephant sanctuaries are a great idea, but as you say cost big bucks, and can they generate enough revenue to support the 4000 (according to the article) elephants in captivity ? And what about the 4000 mahouts ?
I don't have the answers, but I think that people should be asking questions because the present situation is apparently not good enough.

You live in Asia and think that trying to get a government to concentrate on two issues at the same time is possible? I envy your optimism and would humbly suggest that it's the optimism which means that important issues never get tackled because they get lost in the noise of a million crappy issues. Thousands of people enslaved vs. a few unhappy elephants? Priorities need to be established and the elephants, for the moment, need to lose in that battle.

TheGrinchSR wrote:

Anchor Moy wrote:

TheGrinchSR wrote:I think I'd prioritize the end of slavery in Thailand over elephant rights... but that's just me.

We could also think about more than one thing at a time if we put our minds to it. .

You live in Asia and think that trying to get a government to concentrate on two issues at the same time is possible? I envy your optimism and would humbly suggest that it's the optimism which means that important issues never get tackled because they get lost in the noise of a million crappy issues. Thousands of people enslaved vs. a few unhappy elephants? Priorities need to be established and the elephants, for the moment, need to lose in that battle.

I think you misunderstood me. Perhaps I should have said that I myself find it possible to support anti-slavery measures, while also wondering if Thailand has an elephant problem because they are killing people.

Or maybe I misunderstood you when you said"I", and you actually meant "I, if I was the Thai govt, would..." In that case, no, IMHO I don't think they can deal with elephants when there are so many bloggers to lock up and journalists to sue etc. Never mind the slaves or the elephants.

I do post about Human Rights, but I'm also fond of elephants. Fair enough ?
And I'm not optimistic at all.

I don't think a couple of isolated unconnected deaths is a reason to ban something. If I did I'd have to argue in favour of banning anything electrical or mechanical due to the risk of electrocution or trauma.

I'd probably be in favour of stricter regulation around elephant attractions or having them phased out if I knew more about them. But treatment of elephants wasn't the focus of the OP.

TheGrinchSR wrote:I think I'd prioritize the end of slavery in Thailand over elephant rights... but that's just me.

Slavery is already illegal and most victims of human trafficking have been defrauded of their wages, not kidnapped. Labour laws are notoriously difficult to enforce in remote locations and private residences, which is why slavery still occurs in all countries today. Have you written to your repressentative demanding that they focus the full force of the state into investigating and prosecuting slavery?

The continued existence of agricultural slavery might be hard to believe, but exist it does, and at a widespread levels across the globe.

What might be even more surprising, especially to American consumers, is the prevalence of slavery on farms across the United States. CIW – an anti-slavery and workers’ rights group based in Florida – estimates that, on a regular day, as many as 5% of American farm workers are forced laborers, working against their wills.
http://themarginalized.com/2010/09/08/h ... ed-states/

Modern day victims of slavery are often young women from eastern Europe, thinking they are coming to England to work as cleaners or au pairs, only to be forced into prostitution.

The Home Office estimated in 2003 that 4,000 women were trafficked into the UK for sexual exploitation. It is thought the figure may have grown since.

I was kept locked in the house for two weeks - he raped and slapped me every day
-A sex slave victim's story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6459369.stm

phuketrichard wrote:come up with a suggestion on how a Mahout is supposed to feed his elephant
I visited a few sanctuaries in Thailand over the years and feel its a great idea, especially the ones where they are allowed to roam, but it costs $$$

Why would we continue feeding these elephants? Animals don't receive pensions or enjoy comfortable retirements.

Kill it, cook it, eat it!

ali baba wrote:I don't think a couple of isolated unconnected deaths is a reason to ban something. If I did I'd have to argue in favour of banning anything electrical or mechanical due to the risk of electrocution or trauma.

I'd probably be in favour of stricter regulation around elephant attractions or having them phased out if I knew more about them.

Agreed they seem very isolated incidents, and nowhere near fatalaties from dogs for example. 4.5 – 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs every year, and last year 32 people died as a result of the bites, with a similar number the year before.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog ... ted_States I would be more in favour of appropriate regulation. I won't start on the firearm or motor vehicle related deaths