Elephant-riding in Thailand - should it be banned ?
Re: Elephant-riding in Thailand - should it be banned ?
Let's ban them elephants from zoos and circuses in "civilized" countries around the world that don't natively have elephants first. Once that campaign has been concluded successfully, the busy bodies can move on to banning elephant riding in elephant countries.
(Disclaimer: I have never ridden an elephant in Thailand or elsewhere. I only ride animals I know how to control by myself, which limits me to horses. Which reminds me that there's the occasional joker on ThaiVisa who advocates banning horseback riding on Hua Hin's beach.)
(Disclaimer: I have never ridden an elephant in Thailand or elsewhere. I only ride animals I know how to control by myself, which limits me to horses. Which reminds me that there's the occasional joker on ThaiVisa who advocates banning horseback riding on Hua Hin's beach.)
Re: Elephant-riding in Thailand - should it be banned ?
No.
The world doesn't need anything else to be banned. People need to be more appropriately, Punished.
The world doesn't need anything else to be banned. People need to be more appropriately, Punished.
Re: Elephant-riding in Thailand - should it be banned ?
The standard of care needs to be appropriate. If it is don’t think it needs banning.
I’ve done it before in Chiangmai and saw an open wound where the guide was digging into the animal as a way to control/direct it.
I’ve done it before in Chiangmai and saw an open wound where the guide was digging into the animal as a way to control/direct it.
- SternAAlbifrons
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Re: Elephant-riding in Thailand - should it be banned ?
The reality is that the standard of care will almost always be poor, usually worse than "poor" - especially in this part of the world.
And that is just the primary care.
Of equal weight is the whole picture of the elephants life - including its environmental and socio-psychological needs.
High-end animals like dolphins, primates and elephants NEED as much high-end considerations as humans to their "whole of life" existence.
Or it is cruelty - often torture. Plain and simple.
Pay your money for 'the experience' of a wild real-life safari expedition (in your mind as you are traipsing around the block for half an hour) and a selfie - That is entirely up to you.
But personally, i don't think commerce should be given the old "up to you" to hijack a higher-order animal just to turn a buck. And then torture it as a matter of course every day.
I reckon they need to be fully banned because good care is just not going to happen most of the time.
eg, ref GM's astute observation ^^
Of course it would be better to dry up the market organically - as it is in the West where people have realised the abuse, and so customers are dropping off fast.
But sometimes the law has to take the lead - and then most people's attitudes usually follow when they realise the cruelty too.
imo, that really is the most feasible way forward in SEA. and doable. Country by country, steadily.
(ps, all kinds of improvements have already been made on a number of animal/wildlife and environmental fronts in SEA, never forget to see that too - amongst all the horror shows.)
Horses and dogs, eg, and agricultural animals are a bit different.
Either their needs are not as complex (farm animals), or they have evolved to actually thrive alongside us (higher order domesticated species like horses and dogs).
It is important to make these distinctions. but only if you care two flucks about an animals welfare.
And that is just the primary care.
Of equal weight is the whole picture of the elephants life - including its environmental and socio-psychological needs.
High-end animals like dolphins, primates and elephants NEED as much high-end considerations as humans to their "whole of life" existence.
Or it is cruelty - often torture. Plain and simple.
Pay your money for 'the experience' of a wild real-life safari expedition (in your mind as you are traipsing around the block for half an hour) and a selfie - That is entirely up to you.
But personally, i don't think commerce should be given the old "up to you" to hijack a higher-order animal just to turn a buck. And then torture it as a matter of course every day.
I reckon they need to be fully banned because good care is just not going to happen most of the time.
eg, ref GM's astute observation ^^
Of course it would be better to dry up the market organically - as it is in the West where people have realised the abuse, and so customers are dropping off fast.
But sometimes the law has to take the lead - and then most people's attitudes usually follow when they realise the cruelty too.
imo, that really is the most feasible way forward in SEA. and doable. Country by country, steadily.
(ps, all kinds of improvements have already been made on a number of animal/wildlife and environmental fronts in SEA, never forget to see that too - amongst all the horror shows.)
Horses and dogs, eg, and agricultural animals are a bit different.
Either their needs are not as complex (farm animals), or they have evolved to actually thrive alongside us (higher order domesticated species like horses and dogs).
It is important to make these distinctions. but only if you care two flucks about an animals welfare.
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Re: Elephant-riding in Thailand - should it be banned ?
I just came across this report online, which puts forward the case for Asian elephants being used to create business in the SEA region, against the recent western activism against riding elephants. I'm no expert on wildlife, just interested, so anyway, I thought this was worth the read and maybe discussion ?
Activism or paternalism? The case of elephant-based tourism in Southeast Asia.
Updated: Feb 19
Dr Ingrid Suter, Asian Captive Elephant Standards
Elephant-based tourism is nothing new. The older backpackers among us will remember the streetwalking elephants of Bangkok, a common sight in the 1990s and early 2000s. Even then it felt uncomfortable, seeing this majestic animal amidst the backdrop of tuktuks, taxis and tarmac. The Thai government banned streetwalking elephants decades ago, just one of the many major improvements that has been made in captive elephant welfare and management over the years. But do people in the West know about these improvements? Barely. I used to believe that it was a genuine lack of exposure to the reforms that kept us Westerners in the dark. But after years of working in the elephant-based tourism sector, I now concede that Westerners are simply not interested in listening to Southeast Asian voices.
Most Westerners show absolutely no interest in acknowledging the gains made in elephant welfare research and science. Western-run NGOs would rather dominate and talk over local communities, deny poor people a legitimate income stream, and continue to dehumanise all Southeast Asian elephant workers as uneducated, ignorant, and inherently cruel. Even the most educated academics and veterinarians in Southeast Asia are dismissed, their scientific research into elephant welfare entirely snubbed by Western decision-makers. Southeast Asian veterinarians and head of university faculties are routinely abused online by Western ‘elephant lovers’. Are Westerners interested in learning about elephant welfare or tourism from an educated, local stakeholder? The answer is a resounding no.
Article: https://www.elephantstandards.com/post/ ... heast-asia
More here:
Impact of Weight Carriage on Joint Kinematics in Asian Elephants Used for Riding
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/11/8/2423
Activism or paternalism? The case of elephant-based tourism in Southeast Asia.
Updated: Feb 19
Dr Ingrid Suter, Asian Captive Elephant Standards
Elephant-based tourism is nothing new. The older backpackers among us will remember the streetwalking elephants of Bangkok, a common sight in the 1990s and early 2000s. Even then it felt uncomfortable, seeing this majestic animal amidst the backdrop of tuktuks, taxis and tarmac. The Thai government banned streetwalking elephants decades ago, just one of the many major improvements that has been made in captive elephant welfare and management over the years. But do people in the West know about these improvements? Barely. I used to believe that it was a genuine lack of exposure to the reforms that kept us Westerners in the dark. But after years of working in the elephant-based tourism sector, I now concede that Westerners are simply not interested in listening to Southeast Asian voices.
Most Westerners show absolutely no interest in acknowledging the gains made in elephant welfare research and science. Western-run NGOs would rather dominate and talk over local communities, deny poor people a legitimate income stream, and continue to dehumanise all Southeast Asian elephant workers as uneducated, ignorant, and inherently cruel. Even the most educated academics and veterinarians in Southeast Asia are dismissed, their scientific research into elephant welfare entirely snubbed by Western decision-makers. Southeast Asian veterinarians and head of university faculties are routinely abused online by Western ‘elephant lovers’. Are Westerners interested in learning about elephant welfare or tourism from an educated, local stakeholder? The answer is a resounding no.
Article: https://www.elephantstandards.com/post/ ... heast-asia
More here:
Impact of Weight Carriage on Joint Kinematics in Asian Elephants Used for Riding
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/11/8/2423
- phuketrichard
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Re: Elephant-riding in Thailand - should it be banned ?
""...... The older backpackers among us will remember the streetwalking elephants of Bangkok, a common sight in the 1990s and early 2000s""
lol
try the 70's-80's
There are some very good elephant sanctuaries in thailand, where they dont do the shows or rides, yet tourists flock to them to bathe them an learn about them>
Plus you have the yearly elephant roundup in Surin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surin_Elephant_Round-up
For me, it still brings a smile to my face when i am on the road an see an elephant walking along.
lol
try the 70's-80's
There are some very good elephant sanctuaries in thailand, where they dont do the shows or rides, yet tourists flock to them to bathe them an learn about them>
Plus you have the yearly elephant roundup in Surin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surin_Elephant_Round-up
For me, it still brings a smile to my face when i am on the road an see an elephant walking along.
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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