Sailorman wrote:Its Texas, if you haven't been there you wouldn't understand.

Spend more than a minute with a Texan, you'll understand just fine. A number of the outback cattle stations back home are bigger than Texas - mention that to a bragging Texan and he'll come out swinging almost every time. It's like ringing a little bell...

A New York Times Piece

The last story may seem very strange to our brothers from other countries. It makes me laugh in a sad way.

Ruby Ridge/Waco=Execution-By-Cop.

Let's all sing along, ah 1, ah 2, ''I fought the law and the law won''. You will never ever out fire power law enforcement. Never!
Although this pair in N. Hollywood tried really hard.

youtube.com/watch?v=wZg4mcYkIwU

Luigi: So your saying the people (women/children)in the Branch Church in Waco were violating the law and should have been slaughtered/executed like cattle for practicing their religion? That its ok to storm a church where you believe there is an illegal gun (there wasn't) Its ok to inject deadly gas and start a fire with tanks in buildings holding women and innocent children? Its ok to spry a building where women and children are with automatic weapons when no one is firing on you? The BATF/FBI F*cked up big time and got away with killing innocent people.

So the government was right at Ruby Ridge? Why then did a survivor receive millions of dollars from a court. Its ok to shoot a man's dog then his children on their own property without first handing them a search warrant from a court of law? Its ok to around on a man's property without first handing him a search warrant from a court of law and/or showing a badge? Its ok to shoot a mother holding a baby from 300 meters+ away with a high powered sniper rifle? BTW/ I love northern Idaho. A religious person would call it "gods country."

Its the same thing that started the American Civil War. People questioning federal government's rights over states(peoples) rights. Remember, its not the United Federal Government of Washington DC, but the United States of America and each state has its own set of laws. To maintain its iron-fisted control, the criminals in Washington DC must slap down all opposition even if it means violating the freedom of religion, right to assembly, and the right to be secure in your person (own house/property.)

Perhaps a minor point but the only states'' right at issue for the seceding states was slavery. The right of a non-slave state to refuse return of an escaped enslaved human being was not a state's right in their view.

JB: You need to study the American Civil War. (my great-great grandfather fought in it and was shot at Shilo.) Slavery was about 20 to 25 % of the reason. The north was industrialized and the south was agriculture and it was all about economics, money, industrialization(and the withholding of it) and import/export.
BTW/ If Lee had attacked Washington DC instead of going to Gettysburg, things would be a little different. The south had limited resources, so needed a swift attack at the heart of the Union, not a wasted battle in some farm town.

Also go watch the movie Gettysburg, its great. It was sponsored by Ted Turner and you get to see him die in the movie. (along with a bunch of governors and higher ups that wanted cameo appearances in the movie.

Sailorman wrote:JB: You need to study the American Civil War. (my great-great grandfather fought in it and was shot at Shilo.) Slavery was about 20 to 25 % of the reason. The north was industrialized and the south was agriculture and it was all about economics, money, industrialization(and the withholding of it) and import/export.
BTW/ If Lee had attacked Washington DC instead of going to Gettysburg, things would be a little different. The south had limited resources, so needed a swift attack at the heart of the Union, not a wasted battle in some farm town.

Also go watch the movie Gettysburg, its great. It was sponsored by Ted Turner and you get to see him die in the movie. (along with a bunch of governors and higher ups that wanted cameo appearances in the movie.

I don't know where you get 20-25%. Instead of movies perhaps read the documents of secession yourself, there's no question that slavery was the core issue. You can call it "economics" if you like but the documents are crystal clear it was the slave economy they sought to protect and a lot of good people who loved their dogs and kids and such gave their lives in doomed pursuit of that protection, Southern revisionism notwithstanding . Arguments to the contrary are if you'll excuse the language, applesauce.

Mississippi :


"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin… "

Other states documents referenced here:


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... er/396482/