TheGrinchSR wrote:The thing is that the value of an individual to a company doesn't just depend on a single skill set. Speaking English? That's a bare minimum skill for working international business, NGO, etc. it's not the advanced skill set that brings in the bucks or good jobs.

The trouble here is that the base education system is complete garbage. The school and university system does nothing to prepare people to actually work. There is a distinct laissez-faire approach to work, (as evidenced in previous posts about quitting during an apprenticeship and resigning just because your supervisor has been fired, etc.), across Asia. This is, by and large, accounted for by the low cost of labour - you just throw more bodies at a project and it still works out cheaper than hiring a foreigner.

First, i have to agree with you that in order to handle the job well, we can't just depend on a single set skill, we need to know more. We need to make sure that we know more than the job requirements, so that we will succeed. However, in a country like Cambodia, where English is broadly being used by most organisations and companies, knowing English is a bonus. You simply can get a job without other degree just knowing English alone. I am not sure if other countries in Asia are like Cambodia. Almost all organisations and companies require applicant to apply in English written application and interviewing will be done in English as well.

I have nothing to disagree with you about the education system in Cambodia. It is really bad. I don't feel sad that our degree is not regionally recognized. I am still hoping that one day our education system will be better, even though it won't be globally, at least regionally recognised. It is so true that school and university in Cambodia don't prepare student for work. Students have to work hard themselves. Many Cambodian students are really bad in presenting, debating and expressing opinion and idea, because we were not taught to do all these stuff. My barangs friends told me that they were trained to do presentation, asking questions, expressing idea and debating since they were in primary school up to college.

PS: I want to make it clear here since you seemed to miss some information about my previous thread. I didn't quit my job during my probation with Le Royal Hotel, they fired me with a reason that i was slow. This is time i did resigned. It was not because my supervisor was fired, but i just didn't feel like to work there any more since the new country director was on power. I feel like there are a lot of favoritism and things are going on which really affected my feeling. I think my supervisor was fired not because of her work performance, but more related to personal matter. They ( country director and my supervisor) didn't get along with each other well. My previous country director was a great man, he was the reason i kept working with that organisation that long. I didn't just work for money, but working environment is what i always concern about.

Samouth wrote:
I was not claiming that we are native speaker because we have TEFL degree, however we were trained to be a professional teacher of English. We learned a lot of about teaching methodology and we did a lot of practicums. We all are capable to teach. Personally i believe that we know more about teaching English than most backpacker who just teach for a few months to save up money to continue their travelling destinations. The moral of that joke is to persuade Cambodians students to appreciate their khmer teachers. There are a lot of stereotype about khmer teacher. Students always thought that khmer teachers are not good. They would have really bad accent if they study with khmer teacher. I think i wrote this at least two or three times here. I have never studied with native speaker. Most of my professors were Cambodian, but they all have master degree and most of them got it from abroad. However, i have to agree with the fact that native speaker could help student a lot with pronunciation and how to speak proper English, but one thing that most Cambodian student misunderstand is that they believe they would learn quick with native speaker. Speaking from my experience, in order to get the most of the lesson with native speaker, student needs to have a certain amount of English knowledge to be able to understand what teacher is saying. Imagine, if you were in a class for 1 hour and you only got 20 percent of what your teacher was saying the whole time. Which one is better, if it was a khmer teacher, you could ask him or her in khmer. Then, when you have built up a certain amount of English knowledge, you can study with native speaker to improve your speaking and pronunciation. Therefore, both khmer and native teachers are equally essential.

There is definitely a place for Khmer TEFL teachers, and if you learnt your accent from Khmer who have studied abroad for a few years you'd be better off than most. Khmer teachers are perfect for beginners because of the point you make about students not understanding the teacher. They also have a place in grammar tuition as it is a technical subject that can be learnt without being a native. A native understanding is good, but as you say many backpackers don't spend the time to acquire this grammatical knowledge. However, if your fairly smart, as a native teacher the grammar eventually jumps out at you, and you start to understand the make up of the language more. Most schools here seem to sensibly put Khmer teachesr in the Grammar classes and native speakers in the communications classes. I am actually teaching a course that builds up understanding of English, and therefore what the teacher is saying, right from the word go. It works very well, Your point about the students not understanding what the teacher is saying in the intermediate and upper intermediate classes, is that they have had Khmer teachers and so cannot understand a native English one. ( plus the cheat sheets of course). I have also heard of Khmer TEFL teachers charging students for extra materials they will need to 'pass' the course. One of my students daughters is studying in the same school as her mother. Her English is amazing because she has had native teachers from an early age. She's about 8.
So , overall, I can understand the students choice.

juansweetpotato wrote: There is definitely a place for Khmer TEFL teachers, and if you learnt your accent from Khmer who have studied abroad for a few years you'd be better off than most. Khmer teachers are perfect for beginners because of the point you make about students not understanding the teacher. They also have a place in grammar tuition as it is a technical subject that can be learnt without being a native. A native understanding is good, but as you say many backpackers don't spend the time to acquire this grammatical knowledge. However, if your fairly smart, as a native teacher the grammar eventually jumps out on you, and you start to understand the make up of the language more. Most schools here seem to sensibly put Khmer teachesr in the Grammar classes and native speakers in the communications classes. I am actually teaching a course that builds up understanding of English, and therefore what the teacher is saying, right from the word go. It works very well, Your point about the students not understanding what the teacher is saying in the intermediate and upper intermediate classes, is that they have had Khmer teachers and so cannot understand a native English one. ( plus the cheat sheets of course). I have also heard of Khmer TEFL teachers charging students for extra materials they will need to 'pass' the course. One of my students daughters is studying in the same school as her mother. Her English is amazing because she has had native teachers from an early age. She's about 8.
So , overall, I can understand the students choice.

Actually i don't want to say this, my accent is really bad. Sometime i have to repeat a few times to help people to get me. I am still working hard on my accent. I wish i don't have to repeat again and again when speaking with native speaker as well as foreigner.

As a TEFL holder, i should have been working as a teacher of English, however there are some reasons that i don't want to teach English. First, my pronunciation is not good. Second, i think that Cambodian students don't really value their khmer teacher. Third, i always want to try to do something different from teaching. I am not sure, maybe in the near future when i am really bored with those jobs, i would consider teaching job.

I think you know why she is better than her mother. Learning language when you are young is great. You will acquire the language easily.

Username Taken wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote:

Samouth wrote:
I was not claiming that we are native speaker because we have TEFL degree, however we were trained to be a professional teacher of English. We learned a lot of about teaching methodology and we did a lot of practicums. We all are capable to teach. Personally i believe that we know more about teaching English than most backpacker who just teach for a few months to save up money to continue their travelling destinations. The moral of that joke is to persuade Cambodians students to appreciate their khmer teachers. There are a lot of stereotype about khmer teacher. Students always thought that khmer teachers are not good. They would have really bad accent if they study with khmer teacher. I think i wrote this at least two or three times here. I have never studied with native speaker. Most of my professors were Cambodian, but they all have master degree and most of them got it from abroad. However, i have to agree with the fact that native speaker could help student a lot with pronunciation and how to speak proper English, but one thing that most Cambodian student misunderstand is that they believe they would learn quick with native speaker. Speaking from my experience, in order to get the most of the lesson with native speaker, student needs to have a certain amount of English knowledge to be able to understand what teacher is saying. Imagine, if you were in a class for 1 hour and you only got 20 percent of what your teacher was saying the whole time. Which one is better, if it was a khmer teacher, you could ask him or her in khmer. Then, when you have built up a certain amount of English knowledge, you can study with native speaker to improve your speaking and pronunciation. Therefore, both khmer and native teachers are equally essential.

There is definitely a place for Khmer TEFL teachers, and if you learnt your accent from Khmer who have studied abroad for a few years you'd be better off than most. Khmer teachers are perfect for beginners because of the point you make about students not understanding the teacher. They also have a place in grammar tuition as it is a technical subject that can be learnt without being a native. A native understanding is good, but as you say many backpackers don't spend the time to acquire this grammatical knowledge. However, if your fairly smart, as a native teacher the grammar eventually jumps out on you, and you start to understand the make up of the language more. Most schools here seem to sensibly put Khmer teachesr in the Grammar classes and native speakers in the communications classes. I am actually teaching a course that builds up understanding of English, and therefore what the teacher is saying, right from the word go. It works very well, Your point about the students not understanding what the teacher is saying in the intermediate and upper intermediate classes, is that they have had Khmer teachers and so cannot understand a native English one. ( plus the cheat sheets of course). I have also heard of Khmer TEFL teachers charging students for extra materials they will need to 'pass' the course. One of my students daughters is studying in the same school as her mother. Her English is amazing because she has had native teachers from an early age. She's about 8.
So , overall, I can understand the students choice.

Have either of you learned (learnt) paragraphs yet?

You are funny, however we don't have any children poster here. I don't think it (format) is bad enough to make you hard to read.

Username Taken wrote:
Have either of you learned (learnt) paragraphs yet?

http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_c ... learnt.htm
If you're following US writing conventions, use learned.
If you're following UK writing conventions, use learnt.

If you're describing someone as educated, you must use learned.

Learned is the more common past tense and past participle of the verb learn. Learnt is a variant especially common outside North America. In British writing, for instance, it appears about once for every three instances of learned. I always though you were an American?

I use a US configured keyboard and spellchecker, as I'm employed in most places to teach American English. Just like my spoken English, it has become bastardized from living in too many other English speaking cultures like India and East Africa, not to mention Asia and of course America. We, in the UK, have been immersed in US English since the TV first appeared, perhaps even earlier via advertisements. Anyhow, a lot of our English in the UK is completely mixed up with US English and is a fact much derided by a certain sector of British society (sit up properly at the table, hold your knife and fork correctly etc). When in doubt I normally rely on what, as a native speaker, feels right in a given structure.

Afa paras go, I learnt/ learned their format from the retards on K440. Huge blocks of text with numerous 'teh spelling errors etc etc. Maybe they just all come from the UK 'up North'. Anyhow, I was conscious of it whilst writing that para and it's interesting that you picked up on it.

Samouth wrote:First, i have to agree with you that in order to handle the job well, we can't just depend on a single set skill, we need to know more. We need to make sure that we know more than the job requirements, so that we will succeed. However, in a country like Cambodia, where English is broadly being used by most organisations and companies, knowing English is a bonus. You simply can get a job without other degree just knowing English alone. I am not sure if other countries in Asia are like Cambodia. Almost all organisations and companies require applicant to apply in English written application and interviewing will be done in English as well.

I have nothing to disagree with you about the education system in Cambodia. It is really bad. I don't feel sad that our degree is not regionally recognized. I am still hoping that one day our education system will be better, even though it won't be globally, at least regionally recognised. It is so true that school and university in Cambodia don't prepare student for work. Students have to work hard themselves. Many Cambodian students are really bad in presenting, debating and expressing opinion and idea, because we were not taught to do all these stuff. My barangs friends told me that they were trained to do presentation, asking questions, expressing idea and debating since they were in primary school up to college.

PS: I want to make it clear here since you seemed to miss some information about my previous thread. I didn't quit my job during my probation with Le Royal Hotel, they fired me with a reason that i was slow. This is time i did resigned. It was not because my supervisor was fired, but i just didn't feel like to work there any more since the new country director was on power. I feel like there are a lot of favoritism and things are going on which really affected my feeling. I think my supervisor was fired not because of her work performance, but more related to personal matter. They ( country director and my supervisor) didn't get along with each other well. My previous country director was a great man, he was the reason i kept working with that organisation that long. I didn't just work for money, but working environment is what i always concern about.

I'm not having a go at you Samouth. If you're smart, you can get away with a ton of things that others cannot. From 16-25 I took on jobs (with one exception) knowing that I wasn't there to see out the long course. I wanted a general business background without the hassle of university. So I took jobs that would give me insights into the way businesses worked. Once I had the knowledge I needed... I was gone and on to the next challenge. That doesn't mean I did a bad job, just that I didn't stick around.

I did everything from working in warehouses (supply chain management), archiving (documentation management), retail sales, telesales, marketing, to working as a database administrator (twice - once using Access and the second time having to learn a defunct bespoke database system for the NHS...), to HR, etc.

It made an incredible difference to my career when I finally decided to kick start it. I could look at a problem in one area of a business and connect the dots to other areas of a business. When I designed solutions to problems they didn't pass the buck to someone else.

If you want to improve your debating, public speaking, etc. there's a Toastmaster's branch in Phnom Penh. It's a low cost club that works on presentation delivery.

And in today's world, pretty much anything else can be learnt (learned) online for free if you look hard enough... I took all my original professional certifications online from a bulk certification provider (it cost me $99 to get the certificates - dozens of them)... that was more than enough to get better paid jobs, etc. with. Over the course of my career - I've beaten out plenty of PhDs and Master's graduates for work... because there comes a time when experience and expertise beats out paper qualifications. However, you've got to develop that experience and expertise and you need a shit ton of luck (and interview skills) to get there.

Had a friend ask 1 of his students to go and do a survey on how many Khmer students would like to learn with a forgierner from the west of a fellow native. More then 3/4ths would rather learn with a Khmer. At the end of the survey he asked why....reason being. Khmer dont hurt feelings!

LMMMMMFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

TheGrinchSR wrote:

Samouth wrote:First, i have to agree with you that in order to handle the job well, we can't just depend on a single set skill, we need to know more. We need to make sure that we know more than the job requirements, so that we will succeed. However, in a country like Cambodia, where English is broadly being used by most organisations and companies, knowing English is a bonus. You simply can get a job without other degree just knowing English alone. I am not sure if other countries in Asia are like Cambodia. Almost all organisations and companies require applicant to apply in English written application and interviewing will be done in English as well.

I have nothing to disagree with you about the education system in Cambodia. It is really bad. I don't feel sad that our degree is not regionally recognized. I am still hoping that one day our education system will be better, even though it won't be globally, at least regionally recognised. It is so true that school and university in Cambodia don't prepare student for work. Students have to work hard themselves. Many Cambodian students are really bad in presenting, debating and expressing opinion and idea, because we were not taught to do all these stuff. My barangs friends told me that they were trained to do presentation, asking questions, expressing idea and debating since they were in primary school up to college.

PS: I want to make it clear here since you seemed to miss some information about my previous thread. I didn't quit my job during my probation with Le Royal Hotel, they fired me with a reason that i was slow. This is time i did resigned. It was not because my supervisor was fired, but i just didn't feel like to work there any more since the new country director was on power. I feel like there are a lot of favoritism and things are going on which really affected my feeling. I think my supervisor was fired not because of her work performance, but more related to personal matter. They ( country director and my supervisor) didn't get along with each other well. My previous country director was a great man, he was the reason i kept working with that organisation that long. I didn't just work for money, but working environment is what i always concern about.

I'm not having a go at you Samouth. If you're smart, you can get away with a ton of things that others cannot. From 16-25 I took on jobs (with one exception) knowing that I wasn't there to see out the long course. I wanted a general business background without the hassle of university. So I took jobs that would give me insights into the way businesses worked. Once I had the knowledge I needed... I was gone and on to the next challenge. That doesn't mean I did a bad job, just that I didn't stick around.

I did everything from working in warehouses (supply chain management), archiving (documentation management), retail sales, telesales, marketing, to working as a database administrator (twice - once using Access and the second time having to learn a defunct bespoke database system for the NHS...), to HR, etc.

It made an incredible difference to my career when I finally decided to kick start it. I could look at a problem in one area of a business and connect the dots to other areas of a business. When I designed solutions to problems they didn't pass the buck to someone else.

If you want to improve your debating, public speaking, etc. there's a Toastmaster's branch in Phnom Penh. It's a low cost club that works on presentation delivery.

And in today's world, pretty much anything else can be learnt (learned) online for free if you look hard enough... I took all my original professional certifications online from a bulk certification provider (it cost me $99 to get the certificates - dozens of them)... that was more than enough to get better paid jobs, etc. with. Over the course of my career - I've beaten out plenty of PhDs and Master's graduates for work... because there comes a time when experience and expertise beats out paper qualifications. However, you've got to develop that experience and expertise and you need a shit ton of luck (and interview skills) to get there.

Honestly i have never thought that you were having a go at me. Please feel free to write whatever you want. Constructive criticism is always welcomed and appreciated. Joined CEO for awhile, i have been learning and sharing a lots. I have learned things that i was clueless before and helped people to understand more about my country, people and culture. It is what i always want to do. i am young, so it is better to learn from older people who have more experiences about the world and life. I like a few posters here who always gave me great advises and helped me to understand more about life and stuff. You are one of them.

I have done a few courses on https://www.coursera.org/. It is really great educational website, but i have never paid to get certificate as i don't have visa card.