Username Taken wrote:Everyone is less of a dick on CEO!
I've got before and after photos, if you want proof.

opcorn:

Marx was completely wrong. His ideas have lead to hundreds of millions of deaths and untold human suffering. The idea that it is acceptable for govt. to treat people as chattle, deprive them of their natural right to the fruits of their labor, deny them the freedom to leave, and to enslave or kill those who resist.......is the definition of an evil, vile system.

Capitalism is lifting former communist hellholes into a modern, and prosperous world.

I just don't see it as working. Humans are definitely motivated by self-interest, so it is difficult to imagine the same level of creativity existing in regimes that don't allow private ownership of property. I also can't see how such a political system could exist without those at the top having too much power and thus eventually turning corrupt.

I think a democratic capitalist base, with certain industries socialized and lots of regulation, works better. Not perfect obviously, but it seems that this system has provided equality and an increased standard of living for more people than any other.

1) Marx was right about society(European) at the time.

2) Workers to have shares in the scheme of things, a sense of belonging instead of disposability

3) Because the model's future is tenuous at best and any criticism is taken as a threat to its functionality.

Marxism is an economic and social system derived from the work of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels (1829 - 1895). It is a theoretical-practical framework based on the analysis of "the conflicts between the powerful and the subjugated" with working class self-emancipation as its goal.

Thanks, guys, some good ideas.

@SC, yes, old Jeezer was a Jew, but he was the first Christian, yes? He repudiated many common practices. So yes, if you are being pedantic, but WWJD? LOL.

Yes, Marxist-based structures are screwed up in practice, but under this allegedly wonderful capitalist system, look at the results: 1 BILLION people go to bed hungry every night. What's that, around 16.5%? Unemployment in Europe, that great beneficiary of capitalism, is over 20% in many countries. And in countries like Spain, many of the unemployed are university graduates.The majority of world governments are slowly putting vital resources such as water, healthcare and electricity into the hands of private corporations.

Lonestar, you mentioned the benefits, but let's look at the US. The infrastructure is crumbling, healthcare is expensive and overloaded, university is prohibitively expensive for most, highest population in prison in the world. And let's not talk about the environment, that's an inconvenient truth for most. Doesn't sound happy to me, and I think most would point the finger at the horrendous cost of fighting unnecessary wars and free rides for corporations. Are you happy with the way your taxes are spent?

imo, the first priority of a government is the welfare of its citizens, politicians are civil servants, but they act like despots, with only their own interests at heart. it has gotten to the stage where we expect them to be corrupt, we don't even care anymore.

We know that any system should be judged on its results, but the discussion was whether Marx was right in his assessment, not whether the people will screw it up, they do that with almost everything, including Christianity/any other religion.

...let's look at the US. The infrastructure is crumbling, healthcare is expensive and overloaded, university is prohibitively expensive for most, highest population in prison in the world. And let's not talk about the environment, that's an inconvenient truth for most. Doesn't sound happy to me, and I think most would point the finger at the horrendous cost of fighting unnecessary wars and free rides for corporations. Are you happy with the way your taxes are spent?

Stop moving the goalpost. Very little you wrote has anything to do with communism vs. capitalism...unless you are suggesting "unnecessary wars", environmental degradation and crumbling infrastructure would be less likely to occur under a communist system. But you just wanted to get some more of your predictable and repetitive jabs in at the US. Now if only you could find a way to blame all the world's problems on those "corrupt lawyers" your usual mindless diatribe in this thread will be complete.

The poor in America have on average: a car, two tv's, cable or satellite, air con, subsidized rent, food, and healthcare............and the biggest health problem they face is obesity.

However, we are living in the greatest living experiment of what happens when you replace Communism........with free and open Capitalism. The increase in wealth.....among nearly all Cambodians........is staggering. It is to the point where it is kind of difficult to find extremely poor villages in the countryside. After being liberated from Pot Pot........and then absolute stagnation in the 80's...........Cambodia's economic ascent is dizzying. Look at any Cambodian family you know, and odds are they are much wealthier than a decade ago. I can tell you as a bar owner, that it is more difficult to find staff now than it used to be..........as there are so many more options and economic opportunities.

When I drive through Tuok Kork now, I see the reason all of the old brothels are gone. It is not due to any crackdown, but rather the fact that there are opportunities in a growing economy. Where the brothels once stood, you see car and boat dealerships, private schools, and other nice businesses.

That, is what Capitalism brings.

Soi Dog wrote:Stop moving the goalpost. Very little you wrote has anything to do with communism vs. capitalism...unless you are suggesting "unnecessary wars", environmental degradation and crumbling infrastructure would be less likely to occur under a communist system. But you just wanted to get some more of your predictable and repetitive jabs in at the US. Now if only you could find a way to blame all the world's problems on those "corrupt lawyers" your usual mindless diatribe in this thread will be complete.

LOL, you're so defensive about your country, it's funny, really.

1. What is the richest country on earth?

2. Did it get there via communism or capitalism?

3. You said 'unless you are suggesting...less likely' Pure, self-motivated speculation. Read my posts, I admitted the failures of communism. I'd hazard a guess that maybe 1% of the posters on here grew up under communism, so I'd rather discuss what I know, and use the best examples of capitalist wealth from among those examples.

4. You also (so predictably) failed to acknowledge that I mentioned that teensy example of Europe, but that's your Kansas pysche at work again.

5. I think a child understands why a discussion that involves evaluating capitalism but excludes America as an example is a joke. You don't, it seems. You're the mindless one resorting to ad hominems , seriously, weak try.

As for lawyers, meh, I know some decent ones, and I know some scumbags. I've said that often, but in your desperation, you still cling to that broad brush in an attempt to discredit me. I guess I'ma conspiracy-theory advocate, or perhaps a self-hating capitalist. One-trick pony, you are. I suppose you educate someone to build bridges, why teach them to do any non-mathematical reasoning, right?

Lonestar wrote:However, we are living in the greatest living experiment of what happens when you replace Communism........with free and open Capitalism. The increase in wealth.....among nearly all Cambodians........is staggering. It is to the point where it is kind of difficult to find extremely poor villages in the countryside. After being liberated from Pot Pot........and then absolute stagnation in the 80's...........Cambodia's economic ascent is dizzying. Look at any Cambodian family you know, and odds are they are much wealthier than a decade ago. I can tell you as a bar owner, that it is more difficult to find staff now than it used to be..........as there are so many more options and economic opportunities.

When I drive through Tuok Kork now, I see the reason all of the old brothels are gone. It is not due to any crackdown, but rather the fact that there are opportunities in a growing economy. Where the brothels once stood, you see car and boat dealerships, private schools, and other nice businesses.

That, is what Capitalism brings.

You see, Soi Dog? This is what we need, a living, breathing example. Lonestar, I agree that there have been vast improvements, it's hard to disagree with fact, as opposed to diatribe. However, one aspect that almost every person who states what you have stated here fails to mention the most important question: how much more developed could it be if the administration were clean?

And regarding the KR, it was rampant capitalism, exploitation and corruption that gave the KR that angle they needed to attract followers to their nutty perversion of a doctrine that was designed to benefit most, not have them murdered by their own or starved to death.

@Lonestar: it's obvious to everyone that there are vast amounts of money in the US. My point is not to try and dispute that, my point is that if the vast amounts were spent primarily in the interests of the majority, then the problems I listed could be fixed, and not just fixed, but fixed to a standard of excellence not seen in many countries anywhere else. The vast amounts of wealth came from human resources, but I don't see government spending reflecting the importance of that, ie cheap education/healthcare. Why?

Ha ha, I've met a few communists in my time, they always come with hat in hand asking for favors after being rejected elsewhere, like 'borrow me a few quid I'll play you a song for free on my acoustic guitar'

Yeah but you can't sing and nobody likes your music, I always end up giving them a twenty so they stop bugging me. Hey the last thing we want is another communist revolution to absolutely corrupt.