UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

This is where our community discusses almost anything! While we're mainly a Cambodia expat discussion forum and talk about expat life here, we debate about almost everything. Even if you're a tourist passing through Southeast Asia and want to connect with expatriates living and working in Cambodia, this is the first section of our site that you should check out. Our members start their own discussions or post links to other blogs and/or news articles they find interesting and want to chat about. So join in the fun and start new topics, or feel free to comment on anything our community members have already started! We also have some Khmer members here as well, but English is the main language used on CEO. You're welcome to have a look around, and if you decide you want to participate, you can become a part our international expat community by signing up for a free account.
User avatar
Kammekor
Expatriate
Posts: 6456
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:50 pm
Reputation: 2948
Cambodia

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by Kammekor »

Fourkinnel wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:42 pm
cautious colin wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:21 am
jah steu wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:42 am As long as you realise that I’d guess you are breaking the law by declaring that you are resident in the UK but are in fact living long-term in Cambodia.
I found out the hard way that these days countries’ governments share huge amounts of data about tax, foreign residents and pensioners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not necessarily breaking the law. Law is more than half a year makes you resident.

If you don't stay anywhere for more than half a year the default will be the country you have "more ties to". This is a grey area.

A yearly visa does not imply residency
Any up to date links on the " more ties to " please?
It's very hard to say something specific about it because it depends on your personal situation, but the UK will not accept you not being tied to one country.
In that case, and many other cases, they will hold you liable for the income tax in the UK.
Bluenose
Expatriate
Posts: 849
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:44 pm
Reputation: 464
Great Britain

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by Bluenose »

Kammekor wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:50 pm
Fourkinnel wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:42 pm
cautious colin wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:21 am
jah steu wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:42 am As long as you realise that I’d guess you are breaking the law by declaring that you are resident in the UK but are in fact living long-term in Cambodia.
I found out the hard way that these days countries’ governments share huge amounts of data about tax, foreign residents and pensioners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not necessarily breaking the law. Law is more than half a year makes you resident.

If you don't stay anywhere for more than half a year the default will be the country you have "more ties to". This is a grey area.

A yearly visa does not imply residency
Any up to date links on the " more ties to " please?
It's very hard to say something specific about it because it depends on your personal situation, but the UK will not accept you not being tied to one country.
In that case, and many other cases, they will hold you liable for the income tax in the UK.
The issue with the OP is that if you are resident in the UK your pension will increase every year in line with the rate of increase in average earnings (or currently also a couple of other factors). The same happens if you are resident in a country with a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK. However, if you are resident in a country that doesn't have such an agreement (and there's a lot including Australia, Canada and New Zealand) the pension is frozen at the amount when you reached retirement age or moved abroad, it doesn't increase at all.
User avatar
Kammekor
Expatriate
Posts: 6456
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:50 pm
Reputation: 2948
Cambodia

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by Kammekor »

Bluenose wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 4:15 pm

The issue with the OP is that if you are resident in the UK your pension will increase every year in line with the rate of increase in average earnings (or currently also a couple of other factors). The same happens if you are resident in a country with a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK. However, if you are resident in a country that doesn't have such an agreement (and there's a lot including Australia, Canada and New Zealand) the pension is frozen at the amount when you reached retirement age or moved abroad, it doesn't increase at all.
The answer is no. He will lose that.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... agreements
User avatar
cautious colin
Expatriate
Posts: 1200
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:47 am
Reputation: 491
Great Britain

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by cautious colin »

Fourkinnel wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:42 pm
cautious colin wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:21 am
jah steu wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:42 am As long as you realise that I’d guess you are breaking the law by declaring that you are resident in the UK but are in fact living long-term in Cambodia.
I found out the hard way that these days countries’ governments share huge amounts of data about tax, foreign residents and pensioners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not necessarily breaking the law. Law is more than half a year makes you resident.

If you don't stay anywhere for more than half a year the default will be the country you have "more ties to". This is a grey area.

A yearly visa does not imply residency
Any up to date links on the " more ties to " please?
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... /rdrm11500

Can test here https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence
User avatar
newkidontheblock
Expatriate
Posts: 4471
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:51 am
Reputation: 1555

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by newkidontheblock »

Do Brits have an option for IRAs or any other additional alternative retirement plans in addition to the pension during their working years?
khmerhamster
Expatriate
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:28 pm
Reputation: 374
Turkmenistan

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by khmerhamster »

newkidontheblock wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:01 pm Do Brits have an option for IRAs or any other additional alternative retirement plans in addition to the pension during their working years?
Private pensions arrangements are very common. Company pensions are also common although not as lucrative as in years gone by. It wouldn't be strange for someone to have state pension, several company pensions and a private pension.
Don't talk to Brits about IRA.
User avatar
newkidontheblock
Expatriate
Posts: 4471
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:51 am
Reputation: 1555

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by newkidontheblock »

khmerhamster wrote:
newkidontheblock wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:01 pm Do Brits have an option for IRAs or any other additional alternative retirement plans in addition to the pension during their working years?
Private pensions arrangements are very common. Company pensions are also common although not as lucrative as in years gone by. It wouldn't be strange for someone to have state pension, several company pensions and a private pension.
Don't talk to Brits about IRA.
‘Wouldn’t be strange for someone (to have multiple sources saved away for retirement).’

So do most Brits survive only on government pension and nothing else?

US social security was initially established to prevent the elderly from starving to death on the streets and nothing more. Certainly not established for retirees to have a comfortable retirement. That was up to individual responsibility to save and invest.
khmerhamster
Expatriate
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:28 pm
Reputation: 374
Turkmenistan

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by khmerhamster »

newkidontheblock wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:47 pm
khmerhamster wrote:
newkidontheblock wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:01 pm Do Brits have an option for IRAs or any other additional alternative retirement plans in addition to the pension during their working years?
Private pensions arrangements are very common. Company pensions are also common although not as lucrative as in years gone by. It wouldn't be strange for someone to have state pension, several company pensions and a private pension.
Don't talk to Brits about IRA.
‘Wouldn’t be strange for someone (to have multiple sources saved away for retirement).’

So do most Brits survive only on government pension and nothing else?
No, that's not what I said at all. Read it again. This time think about the words.
User avatar
cautious colin
Expatriate
Posts: 1200
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:47 am
Reputation: 491
Great Britain

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by cautious colin »

newkidontheblock wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:47 pm
khmerhamster wrote:
newkidontheblock wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:01 pm Do Brits have an option for IRAs or any other additional alternative retirement plans in addition to the pension during their working years?
Private pensions arrangements are very common. Company pensions are also common although not as lucrative as in years gone by. It wouldn't be strange for someone to have state pension, several company pensions and a private pension.
Don't talk to Brits about IRA.
‘Wouldn’t be strange for someone (to have multiple sources saved away for retirement).’

So do most Brits survive only on government pension and nothing else?

US social security was initially established to prevent the elderly from starving to death on the streets and nothing more. Certainly not established for retirees to have a comfortable retirement. That was up to individual responsibility to save and invest.
As khmerhamster said. We have state and private pensions


State is a fixed amount each year (to simplify) that everyone gets assuming they've either worked or claimed for x many years

Private you contribute yourself. Nowadays private are normally through the company, and they match your contribution by 5%. Tax free when putting in, but taxed when taken out (apart from the lump sum you may wish to take at the start)

OP is talking about state pension. As private pensions are yours and you can do as you wish

Private can be taken when you want after usually 55
User avatar
xandreu
Expatriate
Posts: 1885
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:37 am
Reputation: 1956
Great Britain

Re: UK pension reciprocal agreement or not...

Post by xandreu »

I know someone who barely paid a penny in tax for their entire working life. (working in the UK) Always self employed, somehow stayed under the radar for his entire career, and he seemed to just disappear from the books.

When it came to him retiring and having to claim a pension, he was clearly worried about what was going to happen to him. He had no private pension, and therefore had to make himself known to the authorities, who would work out that he's not made a single contribution towards tax or NI for his whole life.

Somehow, don't ask me how, they decided not to take action against him, probably because he was too old and it wouldn't have been 'in the public interest', but told him he wasn't eligible for a state pension, as he'd made no contributions. He then got some legal advice, and discovered there is a law which says there is a bare minimum amount that all citizens are expected to be in receipt of, regardless of their circumstances, which he ended up getting, and was worth almost what is pension would have been anyway.

There are ways and means around most things if you look hard enough.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never allow the dumb ones to lead the pack.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alex, BongKingKong, Joakim, John Bingham, Ong Tay, Random Dude, rgrowden, Spigzy, xandreu, Zyzz and 909 guests