A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Bongmab69 · Post by **Bongmab69** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:32 pm

I am pretty sure it depends whats your native language is, if you come from a "big language" as english-french-russian-chinese, you assume you dont need to learn an other one because "they" learn yours. I did some business with a Lituanian and a Turkmen, they communicated in russian. If you come from a small country/language (as i do) or you are Khmer, you need to learn "the others"? When i went to high-school in the 80s i had from the 36h about half of it in languages. If an engish-speaker laughs with a french-speaker in cambodia, it makes me laugh also. Try to order in english at some local village in France at about 50 km from Calais !! ?? Or he opposite: in French at 50 km from Dover !! You will be in trouble both sides because you enter a big country with a big language. Here in Cambodia its the same as in other small language-countries, but if you do learn their language, a lot of doors open for you. I can help myself in khmer but always looking around to learn more, dont know nothing about their grammatics but my vocabulary is not that bad i think, and very often get the question: how long you live here (i dont, but come as turist for almost 10 years). All together: english speakers, move your asses and learn at least some Khmer !! Sjookaamoooi !!

Random Dude · Post by **Random Dude** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:57 pm

Bongmab69 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:32 pm I am pretty sure it depends whats your native language is, if you come from a "big language" as english-french-russian-chinese, you assume you dont need to learn an other one because "they" learn yours.

I think there's an element of that for sure, but having said that... there's a huge ESL industry in China (or was until Xi started to interfere and close training schools down - the demand is still there though), and Russia had a decent sized ESL industry too until they invaded Ukraine.
I don't know much about the French, but I always thought most people under the age of 35 or so had learned English at school, and a lot were pretty capable speakers.

Fridaywithmateo · Post by **Fridaywithmateo** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 3:24 pm

Bongmab69 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:32 pm I am pretty sure it depends whats your native language is, if you come from a "big language" as english-french-russian-chinese, you assume you dont need to learn an other one because "they" learn yours. I did some business with a Lituanian and a Turkmen, they communicated in russian. If you come from a small country/language (as i do) or you are Khmer, you need to learn "the others"? When i went to high-school in the 80s i had from the 36h about half of it in languages. If an engish-speaker laughs with a french-speaker in cambodia, it makes me laugh also. Try to order in english at some local village in France at about 50 km from Calais !! ?? Or he opposite: in French at 50 km from Dover !! You will be in trouble both sides because you enter a big country with a big language. Here in Cambodia its the same as in other small language-countries, but if you do learn their language, a lot of doors open for you. I can help myself in khmer but always looking around to learn more, dont know nothing about their grammatics but my vocabulary is not that bad i think, and very often get the question: how long you live here (i dont, but come as turist for almost 10 years). All together: english speakers, move your asses and learn at least some Khmer !! Sjookaamoooi !!

When I lived in Japan ... "How long you stay Japan?" ... typically the first question asked when Japanese and gaijin strike up a conversation ... my theory was that this would give the Japanese person a gauge to which to judge the gaijin's expected knowledge of language and customs ... and help them determine on what level they will relate to you ... if you were just off the boat, you could pretty much violate and customs or courtesies with impunity ... however, if you have been a long term resident, you would be expected/required to behave according to the rule book on Japanese stuff.

Very complicated rules in Japan. Okinawa is way more chilled society, similar in many ways to here in Cambodia.

Spigzy · Post by **Spigzy** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 4:28 pm

Bongmab69 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:32 pm I am pretty sure it depends whats your native language is, if you come from a "big language" as english-french-russian-chinese, you assume you dont need to learn an other one because "they" learn yours. I did some business with a Lituanian and a Turkmen, they communicated in russian. If you come from a small country/language (as i do) or you are Khmer, you need to learn "the others"? When i went to high-school in the 80s i had from the 36h about half of it in languages. If an engish-speaker laughs with a french-speaker in cambodia, it makes me laugh also. Try to order in english at some local village in France at about 50 km from Calais !! ?? Or he opposite: in French at 50 km from Dover !! You will be in trouble both sides because you enter a big country with a big language. Here in Cambodia its the same as in other small language-countries, but if you do learn their language, a lot of doors open for you. I can help myself in khmer but always looking around to learn more, dont know nothing about their grammatics but my vocabulary is not that bad i think, and very often get the question: how long you live here (i dont, but come as turist for almost 10 years). All together: english speakers, move your asses and learn at least some Khmer !! Sjookaamoooi !!

I like the cut of your 'jes'

(Lived in Dover for 10 years, you can probably narrow it to 5km!

)

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:56 pm

Big Daikon wrote:I have had similar experiences in Japan.

As my Japanese improved, such experiences became less frequent.

Japan is a culturally homogeneous country and wants to stay culturally homogeneous. That was the goal of the Meiji Restoration - put on the trappings of Western civilization in order to preserve Japanese culture. Outside of the big cities, and tourist areas, few have seen or constantly interacted with foreigners.

A recurrent theme of why Japanese don’t like foreigners - they aren’t Japanese - don’t speak fluent Japanese, don’t follow Japanese cultural norms. The more Japanese a foreigner becomes, the more accepted. But a foreigner can never be truly Japanese, of course, even if he was born and raised in Japan. Even Japanese who have lived abroad, they aren’t considered Japanese as well.

Of course, there is the cultural politeness aspect to confuse everything. Great for tourists, hard for expats to make native friends.

This is what I’ve gathered from NHK and the YouTube videos that ask the average Japanese their thoughts.

My opinions, of course.

newkidontheblock · Post by **newkidontheblock** » Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:07 pm

Fridaywithmateo wrote:
Bongmab69 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:32 pm I am pretty sure it depends whats your native language is, if you come from a "big language" as english-french-russian-chinese, you assume you dont need to learn an other one because "they" learn yours. I did some business with a Lituanian and a Turkmen, they communicated in russian. If you come from a small country/language (as i do) or you are Khmer, you need to learn "the others"? When i went to high-school in the 80s i had from the 36h about half of it in languages. If an engish-speaker laughs with a french-speaker in cambodia, it makes me laugh also. Try to order in english at some local village in France at about 50 km from Calais !! ?? Or he opposite: in French at 50 km from Dover !! You will be in trouble both sides because you enter a big country with a big language. Here in Cambodia its the same as in other small language-countries, but if you do learn their language, a lot of doors open for you. I can help myself in khmer but always looking around to learn more, dont know nothing about their grammatics but my vocabulary is not that bad i think, and very often get the question: how long you live here (i dont, but come as turist for almost 10 years). All together: english speakers, move your asses and learn at least some Khmer !! Sjookaamoooi !!
When I lived in Japan ... "How long you stay Japan?" ... typically the first question asked when Japanese and gaijin strike up a conversation ... my theory was that this would give the Japanese person a gauge to which to judge the gaijin's expected knowledge of language and customs ... and help them determine on what level they will relate to you ... if you were just off the boat, you could pretty much violate and customs or courtesies with impunity ... however, if you have been a long term resident, you would be expected/required to behave according to the rule book on Japanese stuff.

Very complicated rules in Japan. Okinawa is way more chilled society, similar in many ways to here in Cambodia.

Culturally, the Ryukyu Kingdom was independent from Japan. Even after the conquest, Japan “pretended” it didn’t conquer the Kingdom, per treaty China would invade if it was conquered. The Japanese boot only happened after China went downhill and threat of invasion disappeared.

Even Okinawan Karate is more chill than in mainland Japan. NHK had a piece on that and why it was.

Japanese love all the unwritten rules. They’ve spent a lifetime learning them. Taught from birth, reinforced in university. And yet, many Japanese long for the freedom of Western society. The next decade will prove interesting as Japan tries to change the curve with immigration. Society has to change.

ali baba · Post by **ali baba** » Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:36 am

In my experience Khmers make more effort to understand me when speaking English than Khmer. If my pronunciation isn't spot on I'll get a confused look that says that they don't even recognise the language I'm speaking.

In fact I'd be better off speaking French, which i haven't practiced in 20 years.

Kung-fu Hillbilly · Post by **Kung-fu Hillbilly** » Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:33 am

I feel there's sometimes an element of Xenophilia (opposite of Xenophobia) where locals look up to, appreciate, admire, or perhaps even value a foreigner's culture more than their own so not speaking the local language is more than easily forgiven.

dirtymacca · Post by **dirtymacca** » Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:11 am

I have 2 Swiss friends, 1 is from the French part of Switzerland, the other from the German part and because the country has 4 seperate languages, they talk to each other in broken English.... At least Cambodia has a their own language,

HaifongWangchuck · Post by **HaifongWangchuck** » Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:01 pm

ali baba wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:36 am In my experience Khmers make more effort to understand me when speaking English than Khmer. If my pronunciation isn't spot on I'll get a confused look that says that they don't even recognise the language I'm speaking.

‘

Kung-fu Hillbilly wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:33 am I feel there's sometimes an element of Xenophilia (opposite of Xenophobia) where locals look up to, appreciate, admire, or perhaps even value a foreigner's culture more than their own so not speaking the local language is more than easily forgiven.

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 8:38 pm
As the OP wrote, Cambodian people are much more forgiving when it comes to a language gap than most Western countries.

The fact of the matter is, it's not so much that many Khmer don't prefer speaking their language--Unlike in many places I've travelled, people here speak to you in the local dialect if they can understand you and you prefer it--but the issue is, *if* they understand you!

Or even worse, if you make an embarassing mistake that makes them want to laugh: Khmer of all languages I can think of is probably the most easy to make a linguistic faux pas, as lot of embarassing words or offensive terms are homophones with common, every day words.

For example, "ប៉ះ" is a very common word, meaning to touch something; but most foreign visitors almost always pronounce it as "បាស់", which means to rise up like an erection.

Another more common example that most expats are familiar with is the similarity between ក្តៅ, which means "hot/warm", and "ក្ត", which is a rude slang term for the penis.

So it remains that many Khmer will try to speak in English not just to try and be polite, but also to spare you from an embarassing faux pas as well.

A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

Re: A shower thought that I don't think many expats give much consideration

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