KunKhmerSR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:21 am

Doc67 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:34 am

KunKhmerSR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:02 pm Yes closed for good and together with Khema the first of many. Absolut disaster of an high season and total ignorance to the issue by the (local) government will mean a lot more places will close in the next few months, meaning even less to do for tourist in town, even less reason for them to stick around after seeing the temples and an acceleration of the issue...

I am not trying to be argumentative, but what is the culpability of the local government? Please expand, I am interested.

If people aren't as interested in the temples as the Khmers would like to believe, and Siem Reap has little to offer beyond eating and drinking, what can a bunch of pen pushers in uniforms do about it?

Well first and foremost is the issue of the new airport. Now I'm not saying that the airport is the only/main reason for the lack of tourist but at this point it's pretty obvious it plays a factor (just go check the google reviews of the new airport. Apart from the fact that such a project should've never been opened just a month before high season aside there should've at least been established transport/shuttle routes available before opening and not the free for all market we had at the start that lead to many potential tourist reading about transport cost upwards of $30. And I'm not even going to try and understand this current clusterfuck regarding the toll fees for the new road...

Then we have Kulen mountain where tourist are excepted to pay $20 to see an average waterfall and a pagoda, for comparison the much more impressive Kuang Si waterfall in Luang Prabang, Laos which is around 60m high and surrounded by beautiful pools charges around $1.5 entry.

And then there is of course the Angkor Wat ticket price these days. Including the tuktuk you're looking at around $60 for a day around the temples. Factor in $30 for the visa, min. $10 to get into town etc and it's a $100 for one day to see the temples, not including flights, accommodation, food etc. Considering this is pretty much the only thing to do for tourist in siem reap it's easy to see why many decide to skip it....

And yes I know the local government doesn't set the ticket or visa fees but it is not like they have no say in the matter

The airport distance puts me off, plus the rip off air fares and the $30 taxis just to get into town. So too is the length of the journey by road, either in a badly driven taxi or slow bus. I know it shouldn't, but it does. I hear the place is full of empty bars and restaurants, a complete mismatch between supply and demand.

Doc67 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:57 pm
The airport distance puts me off, plus the rip off air fares and the $30 taxis just to get into town. So too is the length of the journey by road, either in a badly driven taxi or slow bus. I know it shouldn't, but it does. I hear the place is full of empty bars and restaurants, a complete mismatch between supply and demand.

In all fairness, business was beginning to get hit way before Covid. A massive oversupply of hotels, restaurants, massage joints, everything. It was like a gold rush, everyone thought the rapid increase in tourist numbers would continue forever and little thought was given to offer more than just temples. The decline really started in 2014/15; I worked in SR back then and many regular guests decided to stop coming to Temple Town.

Doc67 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:34 am
I am not trying to be argumentative, but what is the culpability of the local government? Please expand, I am interested.

If people aren't as interested in the temples as the Khmers would like to believe, and Siem Reap has little to offer beyond eating and drinking, what can a bunch of pen pushers in uniforms do about it?

To be honest, I think the government does bear a wee bit of responsibility, but generally not in the way that many may think: Phnom Penh generally took a laissez-faire, "not my nationals/not my problem" approach towards foreign criminals preying on their fellow citizens, leading to a controversy and panic regarding the kidnapping of Chinese civilians, which led to an extremely popular movie that torpedoed any positive perception that Chinese people had with Cambodia and associated it in their minds with slavery and torture, thus leading to a collapse in visitors.

The hands-off approach that Cambodia currently takes towards Chinese citizens committing crimes against other Chinese (or really, any foreign national's dispute with another foreign national) has probably hurt tourism more than any single factor I can think of.

KunKhmerSR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:21 amWell first and foremost is the issue of the new airport. Now I'm not saying that the airport is the only/main reason for the lack of tourist but at this point it's pretty obvious it plays a factor (just go check the google reviews of the new airport. Apart from the fact that such a project should've never been opened just a month before high season aside there should've at least been established transport/shuttle routes available before opening and not the free for all market we had at the start that lead to many potential tourist reading about transport cost upwards of $30. And I'm not even going to try and understand this current clusterfuck regarding the toll fees for the new road...

I don't think the new airport factors that much into the decline in numbers, since a.) the tourist industry was already deeply underwater due to 2 years of COVID restrictions; b.) It's only been open since late October, and travellers generally don't choose destinations based on the distance of the airport to the city centre; if they did, nobody would ever fly to Kuala Lumpur (main airport is literally an hour and a half away) or Bangkok (since Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang may as well be due to traffic).

More of a factor is a lack of direct flights from Western population centres: It's currently impossible to fly to Cambodia from Europe or North America without first transiting through Singapore, HCMC, Shanghai, Seoul or Bangkok. as such, even a single daily direct flight from LAX or LGW to SAI would be a major game changer, as the biggest gripe about coming to Cambodia I most often hear is the complexity of getting here in the first place (especially compared to Thailand) and how expensive it is due to the logistics;

And then there is of course the Angkor Wat ticket price these days. Including the tuktuk you're looking at around $60 for a day around the temples. Factor in $30 for the visa, min. $10 to get into town etc and it's a $100 for one day to see the temples, not including flights, accommodation, food etc. Considering this is pretty much the only thing to do for tourist in siem reap it's easy to see why many decide to skip it....

Surprisingly, most international tourists to Cambodia do not ever visit Angkor Wat, as the kingdom received 4 million international tourists in 2023, yet less than 800,000 tickets to Angkor were sold.. That must mean that most tourists who come to Cambodia come for reasons far beyond Angkor Wat, like beaches or gambling (a really big draw, actually). Angkor Wat is Cambodia's crown jewel attraction, and yet there are places that don't even exist on most itinerary maps of tourists due to a lack of awareness (Kratie is probably my favourite town in Cambodia just for its deep history alone), let alone in the knowledge most Cambodians.

concur... really sad bc siem reap has alot of potential but the lack of options outside of the temples limit the joy in visiting.

need some rich dude like mong to liaison with disney to setup a theme park or something that charges a reasonable price..

im just glad reap isnt riddle with casinos n nonsense like other cities in cam...

More of a factor is a lack of direct flights from Western population centres: It's currently impossible to fly to Cambodia from Europe or North America without first transiting through Singapore, HCMC, Shanghai, Seoul or Bangkok. as such, even a single daily direct flight from LAX or LGW to SAI would be a major game changer, as the biggest gripe about coming to Cambodia I most often hear is the complexity of getting here in the first place (especially compared to Thailand) and how expensive it is due to the logistics;

Not just direct flights from Europe/USA but also from the Middle East hubs that so many Europeans/Russians/Africans fly through. The airlines based there fly to a lot of regional airports in Europe so for many people it's easier than travelling through London/Paris or similar for a direct flight. Phnom Penh gets a Qatar flight but even that's not direct, it stops in HCMC both ways. Someone like Emirates/Qatar/Turkish going direct into Siem Reap would be a boost.

It's sad. We used to have Asiana and Korean Airlines. Later China Southern & China Eastern. There were so many transit options to Siem Reap.

Now, for value, it's pretty much Bangkok and hop over via Bangkok Airways or Air Asia. Flying to Phnom Penh often add's a $150 one way connection as Lanmei, Cambodia Airways, JC and other's have left the domestic market.

Singapore is the only alliance member still carrying traffic but they often charge a premium. They also dropped their twice-daily flight to once a day due to lower numbers. I'm assuming it will resume 2x a day next high season, but it's ominous they can't fill up one bird a day.

Having some type of direct connection to Siem Reap via the 3 Big Middle East carrier would be amazing. Even Air India could help.

There’s a big hole left by the departure of Chinese mass tourism. The economy is in a downturn, and having a job is the number one priority now.

The pre-Chinese mix seemed far more stable and sustainable. Hopefully it will return that way,

My opinions. I hope to retire there someday.

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:35 pm There’s a big hole left by the departure of Chinese mass tourism. The economy is in a downturn, and having a job is the number one priority now.

The pre-Chinese mix seemed far more stable and sustainable. Hopefully it will return that way,

My opinions. I hope to retire there someday.

Been noticing a lot of Americans in SR lately, which is really odd sinces I've gone months without seeing one (i.e, not a single one in sight circa jol jnam tmey) and now suddenly I see a lot of Baby Boomers in their 60s and 70s with midwest and west coast accents all around town, which is a bit peculiar. Either way, they all seem like good, wholesome visitors and I am sure they are exactly the type Cambodia is trying to attract more of.

HaifongWangchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:19 am

newkidontheblock wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:35 pm There’s a big hole left by the departure of Chinese mass tourism. The economy is in a downturn, and having a job is the number one priority now.

The pre-Chinese mix seemed far more stable and sustainable. Hopefully it will return that way,

My opinions. I hope to retire there someday.

Been noticing a lot of Americans in SR lately, which is really odd sinces I've gone months without seeing one (i.e, not a single one in sight circa jol jnam tmey) and now suddenly I see a lot of Baby Boomers in their 60s and 70s with midwest and west coast accents all around town, which is a bit peculiar. Either way, they all seem like good, wholesome visitors and I am sure they are exactly the type Cambodia is trying to attract more of.

Cruise ship in Sihanoukville?