Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
Sounds textbook extortion to me.
Please don't confuse my personality with my attitude. The former is me, the latter a reflection of you.
Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
LOL, of course it does to you, but she never approached Trump or his team, so I’m not sure what your definition of extortion is. You should look up Playboy Playmate Karen McDougal, you can then see how it works when one side wants to keep the other side quiet and how they cover it up.grumpygit wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:48 amSounds textbook extortion to me.
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Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
It doesn't sound like it to me.grumpygit wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:48 amSounds textbook extortion to me.
I'm no lawyer but my understanding of extortion is going to someone and saying 'gimme money / do this - or else'.
So far there has been no indication she did that, she just agreed to accept some money when it was offered to her. Not to say she isn't an untrustworthy bitch, but if it was extortion I'm sure Trump's lawyers would have been all over it.
Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
Former chairman of AMI David Pecker bought the rights to McDougal's story for $150,000, but killed the story because he was friends with Trump. It has been reported that he testified at the grand jury proceedings. Is this extortion?
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Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
I’d say no, but the two legal eagles might be better able to answer.
It’s not extortion as there’s no threat of harm. It’s not blackmail because there’s no threat of disclosure of sensitive or harmful information if financial demands aren’t met. Subtly different.
This all sounds more a matter of failure to disclose information which might be prejudicial in some way.
Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
I’m sorry, I didn’t word that right.Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:26 pmI’d say no, but the two legal eagles might be better able to answer.
It’s not extortion as there’s no threat of harm. It’s not blackmail because there’s no threat of disclosure of sensitive or harmful information if financial demands aren’t met. Subtly different.
This all sounds more a matter of failure to disclose information which might be prejudicial in some way.
Is this extortion on Karen McDougal’s part for accepting monies? @grumpygit?
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Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
(Bollox-Cloudflare. Wtf?)Kenr wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:50 pmI’m sorry, I didn’t word that right.Freightdog wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:26 pmI’d say no, but the two legal eagles might be better able to answer.
It’s not extortion as there’s no threat of harm. It’s not blackmail because there’s no threat of disclosure of sensitive or harmful information if financial demands aren’t met. Subtly different.
This all sounds more a matter of failure to disclose information which might be prejudicial in some way.
Is this extortion on Karen McDougal’s part for accepting monies? @grumpygit?
Are the words Extorion and blackmail being bandied around a bit too freely?
Surely, It would only be extortion if someone approached Trump, or one of his team, demanding x-amount in exchange for not breaking some knee caps, or some other physical threat to them personally or to their property.
Likewise, it would only be blackmail if someone approached Trump, or one of his team, demanding x-amount in exchange for not revealing or releasing sensitive information.
As the Trumpteam approached someone, and offered money in exchange for confidentiality, then no. It’s not either one.
Claiming it as a tax expense- well, surely if that was accepted by the taxman, then… so what? If it was deliberately described as something else, ie. Jet fuel instead of Hush Money, then surely that is the case.
McDougal appears only to be guilty of buying something, and then deliberately exercising her right to do nothing more with it.
Rights to a story? Film studios do this all the time.
She is getting free advertising, which might prove marketable later.
The camp chasing Trump to find incriminating material seem nearly as desperate as the camp defending him. Mostly driven by politics.
Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
@Freightdog
What started this was @grumpygit wanting to know why Stormy Daniels is not being charged for extorting Trump. Anyone who knows what extortion is knows that she didn’t extort him. I was just presenting another example with Karen McDougal receiving $150,000 from AMI, and wondering if he considered that extortion. It was AMI who decided not to publish the story, not McDougal.
As far as the tax records go, you can’t claim hush money payment as a legal expense, but that’s why Trump didn’t pay Stormy Daniels directly. He repaid Cohen through Trump Org as a legal expense when it wasn’t a legal expense and claimed it as a write off, they doctored the records, that’s tax fraud. Just because the tax man didn’t catch it doesn’t mean it’s not illegal. That’s one of the reasons why Cohen went to prison.
And I don’t consider it a so what when a billionaire has to commit fraud in order to reduce his tax liability. Just because he is a politician doesn’t make it a political issue. He deliberately cheated on his taxes.
What started this was @grumpygit wanting to know why Stormy Daniels is not being charged for extorting Trump. Anyone who knows what extortion is knows that she didn’t extort him. I was just presenting another example with Karen McDougal receiving $150,000 from AMI, and wondering if he considered that extortion. It was AMI who decided not to publish the story, not McDougal.
As far as the tax records go, you can’t claim hush money payment as a legal expense, but that’s why Trump didn’t pay Stormy Daniels directly. He repaid Cohen through Trump Org as a legal expense when it wasn’t a legal expense and claimed it as a write off, they doctored the records, that’s tax fraud. Just because the tax man didn’t catch it doesn’t mean it’s not illegal. That’s one of the reasons why Cohen went to prison.
And I don’t consider it a so what when a billionaire has to commit fraud in order to reduce his tax liability. Just because he is a politician doesn’t make it a political issue. He deliberately cheated on his taxes.
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Re: Trump to be Arrested on Tuesday.
In their enthusiasm to find something wrong, it’s easy for these terms to get misinterpreted, or even abused. There’s plenty of anecdotes of the legal systems in various places misinterpreting or misunderstanding their own laws. On the face of it, Daniels cannot be guilty of either extortion or blackmail, if it was Trump or his ‘team’ who approached her.Kenr wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:28 pm @Freightdog
What started this was @grumpygit wanting to know why Stormy Daniels is not being charged for extorting Trump. Anyone who knows what extortion is knows that she didn’t extort him. I was just presenting another example with Karen McDougal receiving $150,000 from AMI, and wondering if he considered that extortion. It was AMI who decided not to publish the story, not McDougal.
As far as the tax records go, you can’t claim hush money payment as a legal expense, but that’s why Trump didn’t pay Stormy Daniels directly. He repaid Cohen through Trump Org as a legal expense when it wasn’t a legal expense and claimed it as a write off, they doctored the records, that’s tax fraud. Just because the tax man didn’t catch it doesn’t mean it’s not illegal. That’s one of the reasons why Cohen went to prison.
And I don’t consider it a so what when a billionaire has to commit fraud in order to reduce his tax liability. Just because he is a politician doesn’t make it a political issue. He deliberately cheated on his taxes.
It might be argued that that Trump’s team tried to cornered her!
Using extortion and blackmail interchangeably would also be incorrect. (Waiting for those legal brains to chip in to clarify)
(Suggesting that taxes are extortion is just plain daft. It’s fairly obvious that taxes raised don’t get utilized to best effect, and best effect would be a very broad discussion in itself. But for now, that is just hyperbole and distraction, which is a fallback when legitimate arguments can’t be found, and irrelevant to this thread)
I’ll have to read more about the McDougal bit, as I’m guilty of just skim reading most of this. Even so- if she was offered financial gain in exchange for not doing anything, there surely is no malice. Being offered the ability to keep walking in exchange for keeping quiet might be extortion, I think. Or, her offering to keep quiet in exchange for money would be blackmail.
Either way, it seems clear that the terms are being misunderstood. Might be by me.
The tax law arguments do appear to be getting obscured by all the accusations and noise raised by both camps, though. We all hate many of these situations because they appear and probably are, unfair. They favour people with huge amounts of money, and folks with huge amounts of money have sufficient disposable finances with which to benefit from the system.
All too often, though, it does seem that having sufficient money ensures immunity.
That is unpalatable on so many levels.
If the tax claim is fraudulent, it is what it is.
Maybe as an outcome of all this, the tax laws might get simplified. (I think it starts off with dumping tons of tea into a harbour, and forming militias, saying no, and getting Al Pacino or Mel Gibson to take a leading role)
What’s more likely as an outcome, is more laws, not better ones.
He’s a crook. Trump, that is. But that’s just an opinion, an accusation until a verdict is handed out. He’s also something of a noisy one, and I’m fairly confident that this isn’t a new character trait since his term in office. So, a large proportion of a country’s voting population elected a crook.
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