Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Yeah, that place out 'there'. Anything not really Cambodia related should go here.
User avatar
Jerry Atrick
Expatriate
Posts: 5410
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 4:19 pm
Reputation: 3037
Central African Republic

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by Jerry Atrick »

Random Dude wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:35 am
newkidontheblock wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:34 am Maybe the vaccines against the virus from the PRC aren’t so effective compared to western vaccines. Maybe if the restrictions are lifted, the worry is that PRC health care systems get overwhelmed.

I haven’t heard of new formulations of the China vaxxes, but Pfizer and others have already come out with theirs.
I think that's exactly what it is. The world got a preview of what it could look like when the pandemic kicked off in Wuhan, hospitals and morgues were overwhelmed pretty much overnight, they had to build emergency field hospitals to try to cope with it.
It's no secret that the Chinese vaccines aren't as effective as others out there, and apparently a large percentage of elderly people won't get the vax anyway, they put their trust in traditional medicine.

There's no shortage of data out there at this point showing what's happened elsewhere - X number of infections, X percent vaccine effectiveness / vaxxed people, number of hospitals per hundred thousand people (or whatever the measurement is) , likely rate of spread etc.... crunch the numbers and you'll have a pretty good idea what you can expect to see happen.

My guess is they crunched the numbers and are shitting themselves at what uncontrolled spread is going to look like, a stability-obsessed government doesn't cripple their booming economy for no reason.
I disagree with this take and contend that covid restrictions in China are merely a pretext for subjugation of any and all forms of dissent as Xi Jinping sets himself up for remaining in power for the rest of his life and extending the legacy of Mao Tse Toung to the detriment of the silent majority of Chinese

Presently if you are a dissenter you go to covid camp indefinitely. If you protest working conditions - go to covid camp. If you are an Uighur - off to covid camp

It is 100% about control of populace and nothing more
User avatar
Jerry Atrick
Expatriate
Posts: 5410
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 4:19 pm
Reputation: 3037
Central African Republic

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by Jerry Atrick »

User avatar
Random Dude
Expatriate
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:54 am
Reputation: 1109

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by Random Dude »

Jerry Atrick wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:40 pm
Random Dude wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:35 am
newkidontheblock wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:34 am Maybe the vaccines against the virus from the PRC aren’t so effective compared to western vaccines. Maybe if the restrictions are lifted, the worry is that PRC health care systems get overwhelmed.

I haven’t heard of new formulations of the China vaxxes, but Pfizer and others have already come out with theirs.
I think that's exactly what it is. The world got a preview of what it could look like when the pandemic kicked off in Wuhan, hospitals and morgues were overwhelmed pretty much overnight, they had to build emergency field hospitals to try to cope with it.
It's no secret that the Chinese vaccines aren't as effective as others out there, and apparently a large percentage of elderly people won't get the vax anyway, they put their trust in traditional medicine.

There's no shortage of data out there at this point showing what's happened elsewhere - X number of infections, X percent vaccine effectiveness / vaxxed people, number of hospitals per hundred thousand people (or whatever the measurement is) , likely rate of spread etc.... crunch the numbers and you'll have a pretty good idea what you can expect to see happen.

My guess is they crunched the numbers and are shitting themselves at what uncontrolled spread is going to look like, a stability-obsessed government doesn't cripple their booming economy for no reason.
I disagree with this take and contend that covid restrictions in China are merely a pretext for subjugation of any and all forms of dissent as Xi Jinping sets himself up for remaining in power for the rest of his life and extending the legacy of Mao Tse Toung to the detriment of the silent majority of Chinese

Presently if you are a dissenter you go to covid camp indefinitely. If you protest working conditions - go to covid camp. If you are an Uighur - off to covid camp

It is 100% about control of populace and nothing more
I agree the govt there are all about maintaining control, that's a given, always has been and probably always will be.

But until recently with the covid restrictions, the economy was booming,tens of millions had been lifted out of abject poverty, people were doing well financially, they were traveling overseas, sending their kids abroad to study, going out shopping and eating. People were happy with their lives and the direction China was heading in as an emerging global power. People were supportive of the government because of this and the type of protests you'd see would be directed at corrupt local officials abusing their power, factory owners not paying their workers etc, not at Beijing and the country's leaders. Xi was popular with the people. You don't get much more in control of things than that.

Now, the economy is going to shit. People are stressed, they're losing their family businesses, going broke because they can't work and going crazy because of the constant lockdowns, quality of life has taken a nosedive and they're rebelling. There are protests, people are openly calling for Xi to step down as leader. That's not maintaining control.

Control in China under the CCP has always been about bringing prosperity to the people, protecting them from foreign invasion and restoring China as a global power. In return the people will accept some loss of freedom. That's the social contract the CCP has with the people. A strong economy is central to this and generally, it has worked well.

Which is why I think the point of the lockdowns was to prevent the situation in Wuhan - hospitals being overwhelmed, mass panic etc - being repeated all over China, you don't need to be Nostradamus to see how horrific that would have been. Wrecking the economy and imposing lockdowns are most definitely NOT helping the CCP maintain power and control.
User avatar
IraHayes
Expatriate
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 7:38 am
Reputation: 2030
Marshall Islands

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by IraHayes »

Random Dude wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:50 am
Jerry Atrick wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:40 pm
Random Dude wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:35 am
newkidontheblock wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:34 am Maybe the vaccines against the virus from the PRC aren’t so effective compared to western vaccines. Maybe if the restrictions are lifted, the worry is that PRC health care systems get overwhelmed.

I haven’t heard of new formulations of the China vaxxes, but Pfizer and others have already come out with theirs.
I think that's exactly what it is. The world got a preview of what it could look like when the pandemic kicked off in Wuhan, hospitals and morgues were overwhelmed pretty much overnight, they had to build emergency field hospitals to try to cope with it.
It's no secret that the Chinese vaccines aren't as effective as others out there, and apparently a large percentage of elderly people won't get the vax anyway, they put their trust in traditional medicine.

There's no shortage of data out there at this point showing what's happened elsewhere - X number of infections, X percent vaccine effectiveness / vaxxed people, number of hospitals per hundred thousand people (or whatever the measurement is) , likely rate of spread etc.... crunch the numbers and you'll have a pretty good idea what you can expect to see happen.

My guess is they crunched the numbers and are shitting themselves at what uncontrolled spread is going to look like, a stability-obsessed government doesn't cripple their booming economy for no reason.
I disagree with this take and contend that covid restrictions in China are merely a pretext for subjugation of any and all forms of dissent as Xi Jinping sets himself up for remaining in power for the rest of his life and extending the legacy of Mao Tse Toung to the detriment of the silent majority of Chinese

Presently if you are a dissenter you go to covid camp indefinitely. If you protest working conditions - go to covid camp. If you are an Uighur - off to covid camp

It is 100% about control of populace and nothing more
I agree the govt there are all about maintaining control, that's a given, always has been and probably always will be.

But until recently with the covid restrictions, the economy was booming,tens of millions had been lifted out of abject poverty, people were doing well financially, they were traveling overseas, sending their kids abroad to study, going out shopping and eating. People were happy with their lives and the direction China was heading in as an emerging global power. People were supportive of the government because of this and the type of protests you'd see would be directed at corrupt local officials abusing their power, factory owners not paying their workers etc, not at Beijing and the country's leaders. Xi was popular with the people. You don't get much more in control of things than that.

Now, the economy is going to shit. People are stressed, they're losing their family businesses, going broke because they can't work and going crazy because of the constant lockdowns, quality of life has taken a nosedive and they're rebelling. There are protests, people are openly calling for Xi to step down as leader. That's not maintaining control.

Control in China under the CCP has always been about bringing prosperity to the people, protecting them from foreign invasion and restoring China as a global power. In return the people will accept some loss of freedom. That's the social contract the CCP has with the people. A strong economy is central to this and generally, it has worked well.

Which is why I think the point of the lockdowns was to prevent the situation in Wuhan - hospitals being overwhelmed, mass panic etc - being repeated all over China, you don't need to be Nostradamus to see how horrific that would have been. Wrecking the economy and imposing lockdowns are most definitely NOT helping the CCP maintain power and control.
Part of the success was down to the largest housing market bubble in history.

Also it should be noted that Klaus Schwab considers the Chinese model one to be admired. While he never publicly stated which aspects of the model he liked so much the control it has over its citizens is probably up there near (or at) the top.
User avatar
Random Dude
Expatriate
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:54 am
Reputation: 1109

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by Random Dude »

IraHayes wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:50 am
Random Dude wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:50 am
Jerry Atrick wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:40 pm
Random Dude wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:35 am
newkidontheblock wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:34 am Maybe the vaccines against the virus from the PRC aren’t so effective compared to western vaccines. Maybe if the restrictions are lifted, the worry is that PRC health care systems get overwhelmed.

I haven’t heard of new formulations of the China vaxxes, but Pfizer and others have already come out with theirs.
I think that's exactly what it is. The world got a preview of what it could look like when the pandemic kicked off in Wuhan, hospitals and morgues were overwhelmed pretty much overnight, they had to build emergency field hospitals to try to cope with it.
It's no secret that the Chinese vaccines aren't as effective as others out there, and apparently a large percentage of elderly people won't get the vax anyway, they put their trust in traditional medicine.

There's no shortage of data out there at this point showing what's happened elsewhere - X number of infections, X percent vaccine effectiveness / vaxxed people, number of hospitals per hundred thousand people (or whatever the measurement is) , likely rate of spread etc.... crunch the numbers and you'll have a pretty good idea what you can expect to see happen.

My guess is they crunched the numbers and are shitting themselves at what uncontrolled spread is going to look like, a stability-obsessed government doesn't cripple their booming economy for no reason.
I disagree with this take and contend that covid restrictions in China are merely a pretext for subjugation of any and all forms of dissent as Xi Jinping sets himself up for remaining in power for the rest of his life and extending the legacy of Mao Tse Toung to the detriment of the silent majority of Chinese

Presently if you are a dissenter you go to covid camp indefinitely. If you protest working conditions - go to covid camp. If you are an Uighur - off to covid camp

It is 100% about control of populace and nothing more
I agree the govt there are all about maintaining control, that's a given, always has been and probably always will be.

But until recently with the covid restrictions, the economy was booming,tens of millions had been lifted out of abject poverty, people were doing well financially, they were traveling overseas, sending their kids abroad to study, going out shopping and eating. People were happy with their lives and the direction China was heading in as an emerging global power. People were supportive of the government because of this and the type of protests you'd see would be directed at corrupt local officials abusing their power, factory owners not paying their workers etc, not at Beijing and the country's leaders. Xi was popular with the people. You don't get much more in control of things than that.

Now, the economy is going to shit. People are stressed, they're losing their family businesses, going broke because they can't work and going crazy because of the constant lockdowns, quality of life has taken a nosedive and they're rebelling. There are protests, people are openly calling for Xi to step down as leader. That's not maintaining control.

Control in China under the CCP has always been about bringing prosperity to the people, protecting them from foreign invasion and restoring China as a global power. In return the people will accept some loss of freedom. That's the social contract the CCP has with the people. A strong economy is central to this and generally, it has worked well.

Which is why I think the point of the lockdowns was to prevent the situation in Wuhan - hospitals being overwhelmed, mass panic etc - being repeated all over China, you don't need to be Nostradamus to see how horrific that would have been. Wrecking the economy and imposing lockdowns are most definitely NOT helping the CCP maintain power and control.
Part of the success was down to the largest housing market bubble in history.

Also it should be noted that Klaus Schwab considers the Chinese model one to be admired. While he never publicly stated which aspects of the model he liked so much the control it has over its citizens is probably up there near (or at) the top.
Well, yeah that was my point. China already had a lot of control over its citizens.
User avatar
Jerry Atrick
Expatriate
Posts: 5410
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 4:19 pm
Reputation: 3037
Central African Republic

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by Jerry Atrick »

User avatar
Jerry Atrick
Expatriate
Posts: 5410
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 4:19 pm
Reputation: 3037
Central African Republic

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by Jerry Atrick »

User avatar
Jerry Atrick
Expatriate
Posts: 5410
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 4:19 pm
Reputation: 3037
Central African Republic

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by Jerry Atrick »

User avatar
Jerry Atrick
Expatriate
Posts: 5410
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 4:19 pm
Reputation: 3037
Central African Republic

Re: Fire Sparks China Street Protests

Post by Jerry Atrick »

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Freightdog, John Bingham, Random Dude and 834 guests