Tommie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:53 pm

Kammekor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:15 am

Doc67 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:03 am This winter will seriously test the resolve of European governments and the depth of their citizen's resolve regarding Ukraine.

With gas prices trebling and talk of blackouts (even in Germany) rampant inflation and rising interest rates, this is shaping up to be a miserable winter for a lot of people, especially Ukrainians.

I don't think this winter will be the test with governments bailing people out and all storage full, the next will be far more interesting I think with Nordstream blown to pieces and maybe the Norwegian pipeline taken down as well?

The strange thing is that Norvegians do not use gas for cooking or for heating. In Norway half the houses use firewood for heating in the winter, And firewood prices has doubled in the last year.

Normally I use appx. 120 -150 sacks of firewood each winter (60 litres in a sack) in my house. A 60 litre sack is now getting close to 30 USD at the outlets. Fortunatly I cleared some land last winter and was able to produce close to 500 sacks. So I should be ok for a while. But my thoughts go out to all the people that now face a chilling winter and lower purchase power. It looks like all of Europe will face hard times, not only this coming winter, but also the next.

Heating with wood is one of the worst sources of air pollution and extremely environmentally unfriendly.

I live in Quebec and had been using firewood to heat. I now use electric instead and have many cords of wood unused. A cord is 4 ft by 8 ft by 16 inches.

I'm surprised that Norway being a very progressive country would be depleting forests in such a way. Many rural Canadians do as well.

John Bingham wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:45 pm Norway is not depleting forests, they are managing plantations.

Yes, we are very careful to leave threes that add sustainability to the forest`s future growth. Taking out wood from the forest is an artform in Norway. And not doing it correctly is a matter of great shame for the entire family!

The most sold book in Norway is a book about fire wood. Almost all the homes have a copy. So it is a matter of pride to yourself, your family and the entire nation that you do it the right way.

And I know that this may seam weird/ strange to those of you that live in a city like enviroment.

Kammekor wrote: Why would Biden have to bail out Europe?

He made the political choice to NOT bail out Europe.

Post war Western Europe was at a similar cross roads. It was devastated and in grave danger of falling under communist control. The US responded with the Marshall Plan and rebuilt Western Europe.

Sending excess oil and gas to Europe would have solidified the US alliance.

It’s only a bail out to those who want Russia to win.

My opinion.

One of the few arsenals left in Putins armour is the breakdown of the will of the Europeans to continue supporting this war. He may have missiles, drones and even nukes, but he knows his biggest weapon is winter. Once the cold weather arrives and people are unable to heat their homes, with some of the most vulnerable even dying, he's hoping that people will start questioning whether it's all worth it. After all, who really cares about a tiny slither of land on the eastern border of a once largely insignificant country in the east of Europe, when the rest of the continent are freezing, in some cases, to death?

It's why his main targets now are energy infrastructure. He has completely weaponised energy, not just in Ukraine but all across Europe. As is already being demonstrated, the backlash from EU citizens is already starting, and winter is yet to hit properly. Putin must be rubbing his hands in glee.

I guess it's easy for me to say this, sitting in a lovely and warm country like Cambodia, but for Europe to cave in now, or during the winter (this one or the next) would set a very dangerous precedent for the future. It would NOT be the end of it, it would just be the beginning. And not just via Putin, but other rogues states are looking on at how this is handled by the west. If we are seen to be caving in, paying the ransom as it were, in order for the gas taps to be turned back on (Nordstream can be repaired in no time) then God help us when N. Korea or China want their turn to test the will of the West, or Putin decides eastern Ukraine isn't enough for him after all.