mossie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:20 am

Cooldude wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:26 pm

mossie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:02 pm Yea, it must be a misery with 6 fig income. nothing more to say.

I'm sure after living in Cambodia from 17 to 34 years old, that 6 figure income didn't fall in his lap and was hard fought for. Good on him for making it happen. I know for a fact that if I came here when I was 17 years old, I would've been up the chimney by my 18th birthday.

I thought this was about returning to live in the west, not about making it here. Obviously I can't understand anything that's written here, so best wishes.

Do you ever have anything nice to say?

mossie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:20 am

Cooldude wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:26 pm

mossie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:02 pm Yea, it must be a misery with 6 fig income. nothing more to say.

I'm sure after living in Cambodia from 17 to 34 years old, that 6 figure income didn't fall in his lap and was hard fought for. Good on him for making it happen. I know for a fact that if I came here when I was 17 years old, I would've been up the chimney by my 18th birthday.

I thought this was about returning to live in the west, not about making it here. Obviously I can't understand anything that's written here, so best wishes.

Guess what, to return to the west you have to have been somewhere else, in his case it was Cambodia. All relevant to the topic.
Are you just trolling or are you really that stupid?

I’m a city boy, so wouldn’t be able to live in a village of 1000, but I can relate in many ways. Went back home to visit family recently, and my parents saw their first grandchild for the first time. After several weeks there, coming back to Cambodia is a bit rough. I used to see parents leaving and thought they were soft… I figured raising a kid here would be great. For example, seeing real poverty would be formative and help them later on as adults to give back, appreciate what they have etc. Now my whole perspective has changed.

The city I come from was always nice, but it’s now better than ever. Let’s compare: where I’m from, there are tons of parks, half a dozen within easy (5 minute) walking distance from my folks’ home. Large ones too (smallest is probably 8 times bigger than Wat Phnom), with wading pools for toddlers, big pools for everyone else… Several playgrounds for kids of all ages and so on. All for free, obviously. People lying in parks, chilling and having picnics. Streets are clean and are easy to walk on (I was clocking 10-18k steps per day effortlessly vs 5k here). Really nice and safe bicycle paths, all the sidewalks and streets are lined with flowers and native plants, as the city encourages locals to garden the public spaces. Everything was gorgeous. Several pedestrianized streets with nice benches/chairs, with urban community gardens along them. Mind-blowing. Coming back, it feels like Cambodia/Phnom Penh is a horrible place for children. No greenery, dirty/smelly streets, trash everywhere, impossible to walk anywhere, traffic mayhem on tiny streets, fumes/dust everywhere... Fark…

As with BubbleT, the city has changed drastically in the past 15 years, so it’s not really the same as before. The quaint town of yonder has morphed, and lack of urban planning has eliminated pretty much all the nice aspects of it, and exasperated the bad ones. The previous niceties are gone, yet it doesn’t have any of the good elements that a world-class city should have. No festivals, concerts, events of any kind… They’ve really missed the mark imo, in terms of a livable city for citizens to enjoy. I see pictures from locals at Coconut park being thrilled at how awesome it is and taking a million pictures, when in reality it’s a tiny, fairly shitty (private) park… If only they knew what they were missing out on! I can’t help but always feel a bit saddened when I go there or Oudom Garden (also private, and soon-to-be turned into a condominium). I don’t even see how things can be turned around in the coming decade either, with most state land being sold-off.

I tell myself it’ll be better once a kid is over 10, but even for teenagers there’s nowhere to hang out, and not much to do. Coffee shops are the main attraction, where they just play video games on their phones… I mean, a kid can be raised here fine as they wouldn’t know any better (it’s their reality, so can’t be compared to anything else), but I think it kind of saps the fun out of it for me as an adult. It’s very limiting. As a parent, I would feel like I’d be robbing them of something better, and it’s simply more fun to cycle/walk to a nearby football/baseball field, toss the ball and walk back home.

I know I’m missing out on all the negatives: daily grind, taxes, higher prices (generally), finding a decent job which rivals my current income/lifestyle, so I’m not jumping ship just yet. Also panning on having our own place again, so saving up for that. Cambodia is great when single/in a couple, but things are different when a kid comes along to turn your whole reality upside down. I know this sounded super negative, but I still enjoy living here for the most part. Still, I now understand why many with kids end up leaving, and I've come to realize it’s not entirely off the table for me either.

I know I'm going to come across as harsh in this reply (both to Bubble T and Lexus), or maybe not, I don't know, but whatever the case I'll just come out and say that I don't understand the reasoning either of you are making when you're talking about your kid's future.

Before I go on my rant, I want to say that I raised a now 13 year old and dealt with the same thoughts about where to raise her as well, and ultimately ended up staying here.

My thing is though, the reason we stayed behind (besides her making zero effort to learn English and my ex stalling and delaying our visa applications), was not obviously because Phnom Penh has parks or the schools or anything mentioned (although much of the time we lived in a private community with parks, pools, fields and open spaces, but it was because there's simply no future in the West for the young generation in the "current system". No freedom whatsoever, you have only one choice...school and get a job, be part of the system. End of story.

Hell, I'm halfway through my 4th decade in life, and even when I was pulling in a healthy 6 figures there was NO WAY for me to own my own home in my hometown, and by "own" I don't mean having a 30 fucking year mortgage at $5k a month, I mean actually owning a home paid for in cash, which I used to have until very recently.

Absolutely everything has been getting worse in the west, and I don't know how you even begin to rationalize that it isn't. Civil unrest is everywhere, things I used to do as a kid like walk alone to get an ice cream I wouldn't dream of letting anyone's child do today (although in Phnom Penh I never sweated my girl going alone to a nearby Caltex or Mini Mart to do so).

And I know it's been brought up that "Yeah, prices are high." well seriously now, that's kind of a deal breaker for everyone isn't it?

Sure, inflation is through the roof, supply chains are totally screwed up even today, but I guess it has nice parks and whatever right?

I'm sorry but the bitterness of me being brought to the west and being raised in what I felt was a hopeless country even as a teenager is coming out now. I would have much rather been raised in Cambodia like my girl has been because unlike when I was a child, I can see things improving, growing, getting brighter and better and life doesn't seem so bleak.

Back home, not so much, and if I was brought out of Cambodia to go to the west to be raised, I'd be upset to say the least.

I know it's a rant, but I genuinely don't understand why it seems the better alternative to some to raise their kids. I really don't.

It's like ya'll are trying to find solace in the fire, security in the shit, and comfort in the chaos.

I couldn't have worded my thoughts better than @Bitte_Kein_Lexus so won't even try, but I'd add that I found the way my son was treated in Cambodia difficult to watch and didn't want him to have to grow up that way. He's white with blondish hair but Khmer eyes and nose. Everywhere we went people would take photos (without asking), poke him, grab his cheeks, and generally treat him like some cross between an animal at a zoo and an alien. I found it horrible and despite his very young age it was obvious he hated it too. Here he's "just another kid" and is treated as such.

SlowJoe wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:31 pm there's simply no future in the West for the young generation in the "current system". No freedom whatsoever, you have only one choice...school and get a job, be part of the system. End of story.

I may be missing something but that's your only choice in Cambodia too if you want to be successful in life. Going to school (or being homeschooled) and getting a job is how humanity is set up, being in Cambodia doesn't exempt you from that. The difference is the options available to you while you do it. Being educated and growing up in the west makes it relatively easy to live anywhere you want when you're older. Being educated and growing up in Cambodia has the potential for the same outcome, but it also has the potential to leave you at a great disadvantage.

Again though, I think @Bitte_Kein_Lexus explained the main advantages of the west better than I could have so I'm just going to leave it at that. I realize it's all subjective and I respect whatever decisions people want to make with regards to what's best for their kids, I'm not preaching anything, just stating what I did, why I did it and how it's turning out so far.

Bubble T wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:49 am ... and generally treat him like some cross between an animal at a zoo and an alien. I found it horrible and despite his very young age it was obvious he hated it too. Here he's "just another kid" and is treated as such.

I find it interesting you mention this, because me (being half white) I got more or less a similar treatment, not in the sense of people taking pictures of me, but no one embraced me as a person back home. There was always this attempt to classify me as one race or another to try and put me into a group, and it got to the point I hated it so much that I swore off of ever trying to make a life there. I hated being labelled as something and being included in all these race political discussions as if I was ammo for someone's feel good agenda, and I just wanted to be me.

Maybe it has to do with where we really belong in the world, and where we belong is where we'll be treated the way we want? I'm not sure (I hope I come across as speculating and not sarcastically because I know I have a sharp tongue at times), but I am curious given my treatment at "home" seems like how your boy was treated in Cambodia, and my girl is treated just like everyone else even though she's very "obviously" half too.

I don't know...?

SlowJoe wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:31 pm there's simply no future in the West for the young generation in the "current system". No freedom whatsoever, you have only one choice...school and get a job, be part of the system. End of story.

Bubble T wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:49 am I may be missing something but that's your only choice in Cambodia too if you want to be successful in life. Going to school (or being homeschooled) and getting a job is how humanity is set up, being in Cambodia doesn't exempt you from that. The difference is the options available to you while you do it. Being educated and growing up in the west makes it relatively easy to live anywhere you want when you're older. Being educated and growing up in Cambodia has the potential for the same outcome, but it also has the potential to leave you at a great disadvantage.

Perhaps it's the opportunities that present themselves to us, and it only happens when we are where we belong.

I began life attending a fairly prestigious school in my youth, and the opportunities in that route completely fell apart for me in ways that didn't make sense. Even after I clawed my way back into school for the 4th time to finish any semblance of a secondary education, I finally gave up and cursed the system.

When I got to Cambodia, everything opened up for me in terms of business, opportunities and freedom. I don't know how to explain it, but I always had stable money coming in and gainful employment (until recently that is), but even now things are looking better for me. However, when I tried to get back "home" (home country) earlier this year to try and recover and get up on my feet, absolutely everything did not work out and I ended up being stuck here.

So I guess to your point, perhaps it's just about us being where we are supposed to be. If we are where we are supposed to be, the opportunities will arrive.

***

Sorry if I came across as a bit harsh (I know I can be that way), but I do want to say genuinely that if things are working great on your end the way you did it, I am happy they are. I have no ill intent towards anyone's happiness, and perhaps I was a bit short sighted when I spoke out because all my opportunities in the west have completely either been sabotaged, fell apart unexplainably, or left me completely destitute and feeling hopeless, whereas Cambodia has always been where my heart was happiest and joyful, as well as the place the opportunities to make a life here.

I sincerely wish the best for you, your family and your boy, if he's doing great, that's wonderful. Do what works for you, that's all one can do.

@Bubble T your story is fascinating how you arrived to Cambodia age 17 and spent most of your adult life here and then was able to land back in Britain and earn well above the average. If you care to share - how did you do it? You must have accumulated a lot of skill and developed quite the CV while in Cambodia.