Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

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Kammekor
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by Kammekor »

armchairlawyer wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:05 pm
With the greatest of respect, I disagree with some of what you say.
I speak as someone who has made some terrible decisions in investment and some quite good ones.
My view is this. If you have some investable cash then you have to make some decisions, like it or not.
Even holding cash involves decisions - which currency, which bank (if any).
And there are times when you can do a lot better investing in other things, and there are times when it is better to hold a lot of cash.
Psychology is a big factor. We have investments we like or even love and we have ones we hate. We also have a strong aversion to losses, more powerful than our love of gains. The more we can recognise those psychological influences, the better we can control them. Also we need to control our political preferences.
Doing well in investment requires top notch macro analysis, and if you're investing in individual stocks, also top notch analysis of those companies.
It also requires constant monitoring of a portfolio to adjust positions and, at macro phase transitions, to make radical changes. You can't expect to find this info for free btw. But good quality analysis will pay for itself.
Nothing is for sure and you need to have a varied portfolio and have rules for maximum holdings of different asset types, basically the less volatile the asset type the more you can hold. It's basically a game of managing risk and maximising the potential for gains.

So, if you choose to hold your cash in USD in Cambodian banks, that involves risk like anything else. Risk of USD depreciation and risk of deposit-taker default, possibly also a risk of governmental sequestration (as happens fairly regularly in Argentina).
You have plenty of other choices. You can buy gold in Cambodia, and you can buy bitcoin and if you set up a brokerage account (which is easy to do) you can buy stocks from other countries, bonds from other countries, or commodities.
You don't need to fully understand bitcoin in order to know when it is likely to go up and likely to go down. You just need to understand what influences its price.

None of this would matter much if we were not presently in a period of quite extreme volatility and volatility means risk.
The USD has gone down 10% (in DXY terms) in the last six months and is poised to go down a lot more. Other currencies don't hold much appeal either, thus bitcoin and gold have done well. Bitcoin is also starting to attract institutional funds (maybe not Warren Buffet!) and that is pushing it rapidly higher. US growth and tech stocks are also doing well and so is most of EM (emerging markets) and commodities. So, personally I'm holding minimal cash atm. But it won't be long before the easy macro comparisons swing to very hard (about middle of 2021) and the whole thing will likely go into reverse, sell bitcoin, sell growth stocks, buy treasuries etc.

Getting 8% on a USD deposit is very good indeed and until recently I would say go for it with a sizeable proportion of your cash, although personally I would not ever hold more than 12% of investable funds in USD cash.

The risks vary between the different banks and MDIs here, I have written about that in previous threads. I agree that those paying the highest rates are not necessarily the riskiest. The most powerful safety factor is moral hazard because this can trump all other risk factors. Thus the bank analysts would say that the safest local banks and MDIs are those with high profile and high reputation foreign owners. Of the majors here, that leads you (in descending order) to CIMB, Maybank, ABA, Prasac, Hatha (this has Mitsubishi Bank behind it but they keep very quiet about it).
Just four months later, look where we are now....

Making predictions is extremely difficult.

Interesting times.
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by barang_TK »

violet wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 2:37 am
Tootsfriend wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:19 pm My recent experience with Finance companies in Cambodia. Mature female factory worker earning $250 a month, gets a loan of $6,000 from K,Kredit to buy into a multi level marketing scam selling cosmetics, skin whiting products etc. She cannot sell any, so goes to a new Korean Banking / Finance company that is making inroads in Cambodia. Asks for a $10,000 loan to pay off the previous lender. Repayments are $281 per month. This includes $3,000 in interest. .Acting as security for this is her 20 year old daughter, earning $200 per month and 18 year old daughter still going to school, no bank account , no money, no job.

So whats in it for the finance company, ????. Well they hold the title of the house and as no payments are made they can sell the house, probably at a low price, after all they only want their money and interest payments back. The Bank manager probably got his bonus for making the loan.

The loan and finance industry certainly need a big cleanup as there are so many of them it is impossible them all to survive unless they enter into unscrupulous one-sided deals .
That’s shocking. The sort of thing that can result in suicide in western countries.
Not only in western countries, many cambodians take their own life each year due to debts...
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atst
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by atst »

People borrow beyond thier means in western countries to purchase a car, can imagine it's way worse a problem here.
I'm always being asked why I don't have a car I'm barang, your not seen as rich if you don't have a car.
I'm standing up, so I must be straight.
What's a poor man do when the blues keep following him around.(Smoking Dynamite)
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armchairlawyer
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by armchairlawyer »

Kammekor wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:30 am
armchairlawyer wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:05 pm
With the greatest of respect, I disagree with some of what you say.
I speak as someone who has made some terrible decisions in investment and some quite good ones.
My view is this. If you have some investable cash then you have to make some decisions, like it or not.
Even holding cash involves decisions - which currency, which bank (if any).
And there are times when you can do a lot better investing in other things, and there are times when it is better to hold a lot of cash.
Psychology is a big factor. We have investments we like or even love and we have ones we hate. We also have a strong aversion to losses, more powerful than our love of gains. The more we can recognise those psychological influences, the better we can control them. Also we need to control our political preferences.
Doing well in investment requires top notch macro analysis, and if you're investing in individual stocks, also top notch analysis of those companies.
It also requires constant monitoring of a portfolio to adjust positions and, at macro phase transitions, to make radical changes. You can't expect to find this info for free btw. But good quality analysis will pay for itself.
Nothing is for sure and you need to have a varied portfolio and have rules for maximum holdings of different asset types, basically the less volatile the asset type the more you can hold. It's basically a game of managing risk and maximising the potential for gains.

So, if you choose to hold your cash in USD in Cambodian banks, that involves risk like anything else. Risk of USD depreciation and risk of deposit-taker default, possibly also a risk of governmental sequestration (as happens fairly regularly in Argentina).
You have plenty of other choices. You can buy gold in Cambodia, and you can buy bitcoin and if you set up a brokerage account (which is easy to do) you can buy stocks from other countries, bonds from other countries, or commodities.
You don't need to fully understand bitcoin in order to know when it is likely to go up and likely to go down. You just need to understand what influences its price.

None of this would matter much if we were not presently in a period of quite extreme volatility and volatility means risk.
The USD has gone down 10% (in DXY terms) in the last six months and is poised to go down a lot more. Other currencies don't hold much appeal either, thus bitcoin and gold have done well. Bitcoin is also starting to attract institutional funds (maybe not Warren Buffet!) and that is pushing it rapidly higher. US growth and tech stocks are also doing well and so is most of EM (emerging markets) and commodities. So, personally I'm holding minimal cash atm. But it won't be long before the easy macro comparisons swing to very hard (about middle of 2021) and the whole thing will likely go into reverse, sell bitcoin, sell growth stocks, buy treasuries etc.

Getting 8% on a USD deposit is very good indeed and until recently I would say go for it with a sizeable proportion of your cash, although personally I would not ever hold more than 12% of investable funds in USD cash.

The risks vary between the different banks and MDIs here, I have written about that in previous threads. I agree that those paying the highest rates are not necessarily the riskiest. The most powerful safety factor is moral hazard because this can trump all other risk factors. Thus the bank analysts would say that the safest local banks and MDIs are those with high profile and high reputation foreign owners. Of the majors here, that leads you (in descending order) to CIMB, Maybank, ABA, Prasac, Hatha (this has Mitsubishi Bank behind it but they keep very quiet about it).
Just four months later, look where we are now....

Making predictions is extremely difficult.

Interesting times.
Check the date again, not 4 months ago - 16 months ago. USD did indeed go down and now it's been going up for a while. In fact the investment scene now is pretty much opposite what it was 16 months ago. Sorry I didn't update you!

In the meantime, commodities did sensationally well during 2021.

BTW, I'm not making this stuff up, I spend a lot of time and also some money getting input from people who have quality staff and proprietary models. Even the best are never 100% right and predictions are never for more than a couple of months at most. Things are constantly changing.
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atst
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by atst »

What a coincidence a guy from Sathapana just come to our house offering loans.
$20000 over 6 years
$210 a month interest
$277.77 a month principal
So $487.77 per month for 6 years,
Missus thought it was good only needed to pay $210 every month then when you have money more you can pay back the $20000

$5000 over 5 years
$60 a month interest
$83.33 a month principal

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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by Tootsfriend »

Psychology is a big factor. We have investments we like or even love and we have ones we hate.

How wrong could one be . Like, love or hate has nothing to do with financial investments.
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by CEOCambodiaNews »

^ Right to reply.

The Cambodia Microfinance Association Says None of its Members Have Violated Lending Standard
BY: Lay Sopheavotey and Phoung Vantha May 8, 2022 8:57 PM
The irregularities reported by two NGOs and which will be reviewed by an international banking body have yet to be proven, the association said
PHNOM PENH–The Cambodia Microfinance Association said that no case such as those alleged by two civil society groups have been identified by the association and that the lending system in Cambodia is of high standard and internationally recognized.

Sok Voeun, the association’s chairman of the board, said on May 4 that the six microfinance institutions mentioned by the NGOs have all received the Smart Campaign certificate, which is a world-class gold standard indicating that a financial institution is known for abiding by its social mission and having strong client-protection mechanisms.

"This accusation has disturbed and damaged the reputation of Cambodia and the institution that cares deeply about the well-being of its customers," he said.

His comment was made following a statement issued on May 3 by Equitable Cambodia (EC) and the Cambodian League for the Promotion and Defense of Human Rights (LICADHO) to the effect that the compliance advisor ombudsman of the International Finance Corporation (IFC) had accepted and will review a complaint alleging human rights violations and violations of IFC performance standards by six microfinance institutions and banks that offer microloans in Cambodia. The IFC, which is a sister organization of the World Bank, works with and offers services to private-sector institutions in less developed countries.

The six institutions named in the NGO complaint are ACLEDA, Amret, Hattha Bank, LOLC, Prasac and Sathapana, which together handle about 75 percent of the country’s microloans. “The IFC’s reckless investments and lack of due diligence regarding its microfinance projects have destroyed lives and wrecked communities across Cambodia, and they must take steps to offer real relief to these borrowers,” Pilorge Naly, outreach director for LICADHO, is quoted as saying in the press release. The NGO press release also stated that these six institutions have received approval for more than $400 million in IFC funding over the last five years through either direct loans, syndicated loans, equity investments or loans from IFC-backed funds.

According to Voeun, very few problems have been identified by the Cambodia Microfinance Association and the ones identified were due to a few employees who had violated principles and ethics. These employees have since been fired or laid off and may face legal action, he said.

Regarding the NGOs’ report, the MFIs Association has not considered it officially because the sample used was small and it lacked clear data, Voeun said. However, he added, “[m]icrofinance institutions and banks that are found to have violated those [IFC] principles will be required to amend or face withdrawals from the International Finance Corporation.”

The NGO press release on May 3 stated that nearly 3 million microloans totaling more than $14 billion are currently held by Cambodian households and that an audit of the country’s microloan sector is urgently needed to identify the scope and severity of harms associated with these loans across the country.
https://cambodianess.com/article/the-ca ... g-standard
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Cooldude
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by Cooldude »

Seems to me that these NGOs and LICHADO have an axe to grind with these MFIs and it sounds like personal business between the MFIs and their customers. Imagine this kind of nonsense happening in a Western country when someone wants/needs a loan?
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AndyKK
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by AndyKK »

It's the same anywhere, any country with taking on a lone, there's always something to lose if the payment is not met.
I recently paid off the debt, lone of my late partners sister, so she and the family were now debt free! 2 days later she took out another lone.
Always "hope" but never "expect".
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Alex
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Re: Cambodia Has a Big Problem With Small Loans

Post by Alex »

AndyKK wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:14 am I recently paid off the debt, lone of my late partners sister, so she and the family were now debt free! 2 days later she took out another lone.
That's the problem. Unless you can educate the people you help to be more responsible with their finances, they'll end up in the same situation you rescued them from in no time. I've had the same happen.
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