The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
After many years of living here, I still can't work out, when someone tells me their name, what is their Christian name and what is their Surname.
I have asked many Khmers this question over the years and I often get asked why it's important. It's important because in English, you would formally address someone as Mr / Mrs / Ms [Surname]. It's just weird to call someone Mr. [Christian name]
I often get addressed by Mr. [my Christian name] and often try to tell them that we use Mr. [Surname].
I know that often they don't understand what Christian and Surname means, so I replace Surname with 'Family name', but I still get mixed replies as to how to address someone formally (if you were to do so in English)
I get that most of the time it's probably not a big deal, but there are times, especially in business situations, where I don't know how to address someone.
When someone tells you their full name in Khmer, (if it were English) would they say 'Paul Jones' or 'Jones Paul'? How do they they tell you their name? Christian name first then surname (as in English) or the other way around?
And how do you address them with this information?
I have asked many Khmers this question over the years and I often get asked why it's important. It's important because in English, you would formally address someone as Mr / Mrs / Ms [Surname]. It's just weird to call someone Mr. [Christian name]
I often get addressed by Mr. [my Christian name] and often try to tell them that we use Mr. [Surname].
I know that often they don't understand what Christian and Surname means, so I replace Surname with 'Family name', but I still get mixed replies as to how to address someone formally (if you were to do so in English)
I get that most of the time it's probably not a big deal, but there are times, especially in business situations, where I don't know how to address someone.
When someone tells you their full name in Khmer, (if it were English) would they say 'Paul Jones' or 'Jones Paul'? How do they they tell you their name? Christian name first then surname (as in English) or the other way around?
And how do you address them with this information?
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never allow the dumb ones to lead the pack.
- Freightdog
- Expatriate
- Posts: 4396
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 8:41 am
- Reputation: 3480
- Location: Attached to a suitcase between realities
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
The best I can respond is this, and seems consistent with a few countries around Asia.
Formal- Family name, then given name. Smith Robert. You and I would be Robert Smith in our own element. Obviously, Christian name will be meaningless for a large number of the population, and even those who are Christians are more than likely to follow the norms of the rest of the country.
Although that is not the whole story, as I do know of a small number of Khmer with one name only. They may officially have the formal naming structure, but in which case it’s long forgotten.
My partner is rarely ever know by her actual name, except in official situations, such as dealing with Government (driving licence, schools registration, Sangkat), medically (visiting a Khmer doctor as a patient, or with our son).
Unofficial and informal situations, she’s actually known by a number of names-
When we met, she introduced herself by a short name, which is actually a shortened version of her given name. But among friends in the province, she’s known by or referred to by another colloquial term. It’s a phrase that is heard quite frequently, as I’ve seen news reports referring to a traffic incident, with the same phrase/term.
Among her elders such as her aunt- who for all intents and purposes her mother when her own died, she’s known variably by either Jao, which seems to mean grandchild, or by her given name only.
My guess, then, is that when someone introduces themselves to you, it’s going to depend a lot on the context of your relationship; formal, casual, peer, and so on.
But, I’m interested to know whether my understanding is consistent.
I’ve seen the same dealing with Koreans, yet in India and Bangladesh the western structure was true in the formal case though the colloquial and short name convention still applies.
Korean. Family Name/given name. People call me (pet name)
India/Bengal. Given name/family name. People call me (pet name)
I’m working with a Mongolian outfit at the moment, and this is taken to another level sometimes.
Some are known by a pet name based on their given name, some a variant of their family name. But formally, they are Family Name/given name, except when dealing with their own government, where there is a more senior Family name. And then there’s the characters whose only name is actually a portmanteau of their family name and the given name.
Formal- Family name, then given name. Smith Robert. You and I would be Robert Smith in our own element. Obviously, Christian name will be meaningless for a large number of the population, and even those who are Christians are more than likely to follow the norms of the rest of the country.
Although that is not the whole story, as I do know of a small number of Khmer with one name only. They may officially have the formal naming structure, but in which case it’s long forgotten.
My partner is rarely ever know by her actual name, except in official situations, such as dealing with Government (driving licence, schools registration, Sangkat), medically (visiting a Khmer doctor as a patient, or with our son).
Unofficial and informal situations, she’s actually known by a number of names-
When we met, she introduced herself by a short name, which is actually a shortened version of her given name. But among friends in the province, she’s known by or referred to by another colloquial term. It’s a phrase that is heard quite frequently, as I’ve seen news reports referring to a traffic incident, with the same phrase/term.
Among her elders such as her aunt- who for all intents and purposes her mother when her own died, she’s known variably by either Jao, which seems to mean grandchild, or by her given name only.
My guess, then, is that when someone introduces themselves to you, it’s going to depend a lot on the context of your relationship; formal, casual, peer, and so on.
But, I’m interested to know whether my understanding is consistent.
I’ve seen the same dealing with Koreans, yet in India and Bangladesh the western structure was true in the formal case though the colloquial and short name convention still applies.
Korean. Family Name/given name. People call me (pet name)
India/Bengal. Given name/family name. People call me (pet name)
I’m working with a Mongolian outfit at the moment, and this is taken to another level sometimes.
Some are known by a pet name based on their given name, some a variant of their family name. But formally, they are Family Name/given name, except when dealing with their own government, where there is a more senior Family name. And then there’s the characters whose only name is actually a portmanteau of their family name and the given name.
- John Bingham
- Expatriate
- Posts: 13783
- Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:26 pm
- Reputation: 8983
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
It's more complicated and confusing than that. The "family" name comes first and the given name comes second (calling it a Christian name is not helpful). The "family" name comes from the father, but siblings may be given the father's first or second name. They can also be named after grandfathers. In my experience very few people use their actual names outside of official paperwork of professional work. They use nicknames. I have also known people to completely change their names, seemingly on a whim but maybe because their previous name was "bad luck". Parents sometimes give "ugly" names to children to repel bad spirits. It was common in the past for people to just have one single name. Apparently this caused huge problems with administration and it may even have been the French who enforced double names. Then in times of strife rebels would choose a "noms de guerre" as a disguise. So we all know Saloth Sar became Pol Pot, similarly Long Bunruot or Rungloet Laodi became Nuon Chea, Nguon Kang became Ta Mok and Kaing Guek Eav became Duch or Hang Pin. Hun Bunal became the big guy. Anyway I found this which should explain it better:
https://ethnomed.org/resource/naming-in ... n-culture/
One feature of Cambodian names that often confuse westerners is the origin of family names and the order they are used. This can present confusion in schools and in clinics as filing systems and roll calls are developed. The Cambodian name is always spoken and written in the order of last name then first name. For example: if my last name were Soth, and my first name were Sopheap. My full name would be written as Soth Sopheap. Notice, there is no comma used to separate the last name from the first name. My family and friends will call me Sopheap, or by a nick name. In Cambodia my records would be categorized with Soth as my last name. This can cause substantial confusion in the American record keeping system because someone may think my last name is Sopheap because it is called last and use this as the filing name. I could easily end up with two files, one Soth, Sopheap, and another Sopheap, Soth.
Identifying households or family groups can be equally confusing. The Cambodian children usually carry the last name of the father with some exceptions. Siblings may have different last names due to the favoritism of the parents. For example, the father of a Cambodian family name Sok, Narvaratt, has two daughters. The first daughter’s name is Sok, Sophany; and the second daughter’s name is Narvaratt, Keokalyan. The second daughter carries the father’s first name as her last name because she is her father’s favorite. Giving his first name to his favorite daughter, the father believe and feel he is closer to her.
There is another circumstance under which a father may give his first name as the last name of one of the children. Cambodians are superstitious. If something bad happened to a family member ( i.e. dad, sister, or brother) during the delivery of the child, that child is perceived to have brought bad luck to the family. For example, the mom is in labor, the sister has to go to get the midwife. Along the way, she got bitten by the snake. That is the fault of the child in utero. That child will be humiliated, and blamed for any bad things that happen in the family. In this instance, the father may rescue this bad-luck child by giving his first name as the last name of this child as a comfort and a moral support to the child. The father usually gives most of his support, attention, and understanding to this bad-luck child.
The first and most general way of naming a child is for the convenience of the parents. They may name the child by the day, the month, or the season of birth to help them remember that their child was born on that day, in that month, and in that season. For example: if a child was born on Monday, the parents may name them Monday. Another convenient way of naming a child is to give a name that rhymes with the Mom’s name, Dad’s, or both, or the sibling’s. Sometimes for married couples without any children yet, the older neighbors prename the child in the belief of helping the couple to have a child.
The second way of naming a child for those who are more poetic is to name the child after the flowers, the star, the sun, or the moon. For example, Dara means star which is usually a boy’s name. And Chantrea means moon which is usually a girl’s name. There are many, many names of flowers that are beautiful and romantic, and many parents name their child after their favorite flower. They wisely choose the name of the flower for its color, characteristics, and meaning so that it matches a particular characteristic of the child. Some parents name their child after a flower that has scent similar to their child’s baby scent. By doing so, they think and believe that they are paving the way and hoping to have a child with ethics and beautiful as a person of virtue. The most important criteria in Cambodian culture is ethics, and beauty is not an essence
The last and most respectful way of naming is by older members of the family or the Buddhist monk. An older member of the family is highly respected and is considered to be very wise because of his/her life experiences. The naming usually happens three days or a week after the birth of the baby which is during the baby shower, and only if the baby does not have a name yet. We have a baby shower after the baby is born and not before like Western culture because of superstitious belief. If the monk names a child, he considered the date, time, season, year, lineage, element and characteristics of the child. If the child was born on a bad date, time, and year, then the monk would give the child a name that would give merit and fortune.
Sometimes the monk changes the name of a child if he notices that the child is not healthy (sick most of the time). The monk calculates the day of the week that the child was born, the time, the year, and the season. He would then give the child a name that he believes will bring fortune and keep the child healthy. The Cambodian people seek help from the temple for many purposes, one of which is health care. We don’t have public hospitals. The only place that we have is the Buddhist temple, a sacred, holy and the center for humanities.
Giving life to a child is the first and most important decision made by parents, yet naming a child is also a very important step that the parents can give to their child. Cambodian culture is very rich. Cambodian people are very gentle, generous, and poetic. In any form of communication, tone of voice and choice of words are wisely chosen. Likewise, naming a child among Cambodians reflects tone, form, and character. And there are many different ways of naming a child. After all, the name is a characteristic and a life-long identity. We as parents do whatever we can, loving and hoping for the best. This does not mean that the child will become what or who their parents wanted them to be. An old Cambodian proverb says, “If it is a bad seed, it does not matter how much you water or fertilize it, it will not grow”.
https://ethnomed.org/resource/naming-in ... n-culture/
Silence, exile, and cunning.
- Username Taken
- Raven
- Posts: 13937
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:53 pm
- Reputation: 6010
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
Get with the PC times chaps, it's Family name and First name (or Given name). (But it's always polite to ask a Muslim what his Christian name is )
100 bucks says it's Srey S'art.Freightdog wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 9:16 pm It’s a phrase that is heard quite frequently, as I’ve seen news reports referring to a traffic incident, with the same phrase/term.
-
- Expatriate
- Posts: 1529
- Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:31 pm
- Reputation: 510
- Contact:
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
So?Username Taken wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 4:04 am (But it's always polite to ask a Muslim what his Christian name is )
What's impolite?
Scent from Dan's Durians & Perfumierie
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
I think he made a typo. He meant to write it's never polite to ask a Muslim what his Christian name is.Pseudonomdeplume wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 7:45 amSo?Username Taken wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 4:04 am (But it's always polite to ask a Muslim what his Christian name is )
What's impolite?
Welcome to social media. You will be contacted shortly by someone who doesn't understand humour.
-
- Expatriate
- Posts: 1529
- Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:31 pm
- Reputation: 510
- Contact:
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
I think I get it now. They don't like Christians? They're all nuts anyway, as much as I envy their naivety, but not their living in reality, e.g. would you join a group that decided to proclaim Santa Claus in the Easter bunny were real?scott61 wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 12:30 amI think he made a typo. He meant to write it's never polite to ask a Muslim what his Christian name is.Pseudonomdeplume wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 7:45 amSo?Username Taken wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 4:04 am (But it's always polite to ask a Muslim what his Christian name is )
What's impolite?
So would they if they knew the truth?
Pig is not good to eat. Is it a way of life? I don't get it.
I would like to have everything worked out before I leave.
Scent from Dan's Durians & Perfumierie
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
[/quote] I think I get it now. They don't like Christians? They're all nuts anyway, as much as I envy their naivety, but not their living in reality, e.g. would you join a group that decided to proclaim Santa Claus in the Easter bunny were real?
So would they if they knew the truth?
Pig is not good to eat. Is it a way of life? I don't get it.
I would like to have everything worked out before I leave.
[/quote]
I realise I'm going off topic here, I'm not religious, but I think eating pigs is wrong. It is said that dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs are our equals. So eating a pig is akin to cannibalism. (Bacon, ham, pork crackling and that are OK, but no pigs.)
I read that because of an influx of Korean's in Siem Reap, dog eating became more popular and they banned it in July 2020.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53334854
Does anyone eat cats? If not, why not?
So would they if they knew the truth?
Pig is not good to eat. Is it a way of life? I don't get it.
I would like to have everything worked out before I leave.
[/quote]
I realise I'm going off topic here, I'm not religious, but I think eating pigs is wrong. It is said that dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs are our equals. So eating a pig is akin to cannibalism. (Bacon, ham, pork crackling and that are OK, but no pigs.)
I read that because of an influx of Korean's in Siem Reap, dog eating became more popular and they banned it in July 2020.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53334854
Does anyone eat cats? If not, why not?
Welcome to social media. You will be contacted shortly by someone who doesn't understand humour.
-
- Expatriate
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:31 pm
- Reputation: 45
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
Should just stick to "last name" and "first name" or "family name/surname" and "given name". Most Cambodians would not know what is "Christian name", as they practice Buddhism. As with most (or all?) SE Asian countries and China, when they tell their name, either first name only, or last name followed by first name.
Re: The correct / formal way to address a Khmer (In English)
Would you say that is the same for the Cham Muslim of Cambodia?Pseudonomdeplume wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 12:46 amI think I get it now. They don't like Christians? They're all nuts anyway, as much as I envy their naivety, but not their living in reality, e.g. would you join a group that decided to proclaim Santa Claus in the Easter bunny were real?scott61 wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 12:30 amI think he made a typo. He meant to write it's never polite to ask a Muslim what his Christian name is.Pseudonomdeplume wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 7:45 amSo?Username Taken wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 4:04 am (But it's always polite to ask a Muslim what his Christian name is )
What's impolite?
So would they if they knew the truth?
Pig is not good to eat. Is it a way of life? I don't get it.
I would like to have everything worked out before I leave.
Always "hope" but never "expect".
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 9 Replies
- 2324 Views
-
Last post by Freightdog
-
- 5 Replies
- 2025 Views
-
Last post by PSD-Kiwi
-
- 3 Replies
- 776 Views
-
Last post by Kammekor
-
- 5 Replies
- 1018 Views
-
Last post by hanno
-
- 23 Replies
- 10152 Views
-
Last post by Kammekor
-
- 3 Replies
- 1929 Views
-
Last post by FrankReynolds
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Bing [Bot], Clutch Cargo, dirtymacca, lurcio, Ong Tay and 649 guests