phuketrichard wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:10 am

Yes, vaccinated people can still get covid but it's unlikely they'll need hospital treatment.

100% correct , so why should you or the government, care if I chose to take the risk i might catch it and end up being hospitalized and opt out of the vaccine?

Richard, unfortunately your position is devoid of all reason. For example, above you agree with those who state that people with vaccinations are unlikely to need hospital treatment, and then wonder why the government should care, or anyone else, if you end up in hospital if you have chosen not be be vaccinated..?

I and anyone else and the government must care because:

• you present a burden to over-taxed health systems if you end up in the hospital because you chose to be unvaccinated;

• you present a threat to the health of others because you can spread Covid more easily than those who have been vaccinated.

In the present global scenario, the commonwealth asserts its right to overrule and supersede your imaginary personal rights, which present a direct threat to the well-being of everyone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_good

We live in a society, a society where spreading infection will not be tolerated. To function in society people should be forced to get the vaccine, as it should be. Want to work? Get the vaccine. Want to get groceries? Get the vaccine.

The group responsibility to lower transmission of the virus is a powerful argument for making it mandatory. The problem is that the vaccine is not stopping transmission. Why do you think they are still recommending wearing a mask after the shots? There is a recent study that seems to indicate that the vaccine is not even reducing transmission and possibly increasing it as infected people with the vax are less symptomatic and more likely to go out while infected. Ironically if that data holds it should be the unvaccinated afraid of the vaxxed instead.

The group responsibility to lower transmission of the virus is a powerful argument for making it mandatory. The problem is that the vaccine is not stopping transmission. Why do you think they are still recommending wearing a mask after the shots? There is a recent study that seems to indicate that the vaccine is not even reducing transmission and possibly increasing it as infected people with the vax are less symptomatic and more likely to go out while infected. Ironically if that data holds it should be the unvaccinated afraid of the vaxxed instead

Citations?

johnnywalker3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:26 am The group responsibility to lower transmission of the virus is a powerful argument for making it mandatory. The problem is that the vaccine is not stopping transmission. Why do you think they are still recommending wearing a mask after the shots? There is a recent study that seems to indicate that the vaccine is not even reducing transmission and possibly increasing it as infected people with the vax are less symptomatic and more likely to go out while infected. Ironically if that data holds it should be the unvaccinated afraid of the vaxxed instead.

Again, yet one more example of faulty reasoning based on rumor/hearsay, plus your personal opinion, and a total absence of logic.

It is totally incorrect and false to state, "that the vaccine is not stopping transmission"...

Clearly, you have no clue what you are talking about. You are playing with idle fancies that have nothing to do with reality...

In fact, it is the slow and insufficient uptake of vaccines in America, especially, and their absence in places like Africa and Russia, that will continue to spread transmissions. This is the scientific reality on the ground. All else is hearsay and false opinion.

orichá wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:15 am
In fact, it is the slow and insufficient uptake of vaccines in America, especially, and their absence in places like Africa and Russia, that will continue to spread transmissions. This is the scientific reality on the ground.

THIS is 'hearsay' & your personal opinion.
It is NOT fact, it is not 'scientific reality on the ground'.

And it is blatant "pot callin' the kettle black".

orichá wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:15 am

johnnywalker3 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:26 am The group responsibility to lower transmission of the virus is a powerful argument for making it mandatory. The problem is that the vaccine is not stopping transmission. Why do you think they are still recommending wearing a mask after the shots? There is a recent study that seems to indicate that the vaccine is not even reducing transmission and possibly increasing it as infected people with the vax are less symptomatic and more likely to go out while infected. Ironically if that data holds it should be the unvaccinated afraid of the vaxxed instead.

Again, yet one more example of faulty reasoning based on rumor/hearsay, plus your personal opinion, and a total absence of logic.

It is totally incorrect and false to state, "that the vaccine is not stopping transmission"...

Clearly, you have no clue what you are talking about. You are playing with idle fancies that have nothing to do with reality...

In fact, it is the slow and insufficient uptake of vaccines in America, especially, and their absence in places like Africa and Russia, that will continue to spread transmissions. This is the scientific reality on the ground. All else is hearsay and false opinion.

... Really?......Maybe spend a millisecond sourcing facts before making comment.

"Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Thursday.

"Our vaccines are working exceptionally well," Walensky told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death -- they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission."That's why the CDC changed its guidance last week and is now recommending even vaccinated people wear masks indoors again, Walensky said.

To "Railroad" and "ego bibere libris" /// there is no point arguing with you. The point of vaccines is to stop the pandemic by preventing severe sickness, and gradually eliminating the sickness altogether. It is a moot point whether or not the virus is still transmissive before or after vaccination. The reason to get vaccinated is to prevent getting seriously ill. If sufficient people do not get seriously ill, eventually the virus will peter out because it can no longer be transmitted as too few people will be becoming ill... The more people who continue to become ill, the longer the virus will continue to persist. The point of vaccination is to stop illness and that, in time and in turn, will reduce and eliminate transmission...

You do not understand the big picture, which is really quite simple... Oh well, the personal ego and the imaginary faith in the hallowed sanctity of your personal liberty is more important than the common good? Okay, you can live with that, but I don't buy it, fellas...

Sorry, "moot point"..., not "mute" -- error in post above... but I may as well remain "mute" -- for all the good my B.A. in philosophy can do me around here these days... (...lol...)